Have there been any large scams in the coin business, like the art scams?

TahoeDale · September 17, 2012 3:23PM

Just saw a program on American greed, re a noted NY Art Dealer, who took
consignments of expensive Art from high end collectors, then sold the art, and didn't pay the consignors.

I am not aware of such occurring in the coin world, other than late pay. Does anyone know of big scams/lawsuits
involving dealers selling, and not paying anything?

Cameonut · September 17, 2012 8:39PM

Google Coingate scandal for one.

tradedollarnut · September 17, 2012 8:45PM

<< <i>Just saw a program on American greed, re a noted NY Art Dealer, who took
consignments of expensive Art from high end collectors, then sold the art, and didn't pay the consignors.

I am not aware of such occurring in the coin world, other than late pay. Does anyone know of big scams/lawsuits
involving dealers selling, and not paying anything? >>

Wow - there's a lot of such instances. Not so many in a rising market, but there's a certain mansion in FL for sale as the result of a coin related scandal.

ColonelJessup · September 17, 2012 9:06PM

Bruce McNall . Athena Funds I and II:. Sold investment in Ancients from Fund I at auction, where they were (mostly) bought for Fund II. Ponzi'ish, n'est pas? Was it Salomon Bros. or one of the Hunt bros. got screwed?

Tangentially, I recall a story that during lot viewing for the auction a very famous, very expensive coin (dekadrachm of Euinatos?) broke in half because of crystallized metal in the planchet.

Gary Fernandez. Counterfeited PCGS slabs and labels and put lower-end gold coins in them with higher-end labels. The coins were genuine. End of rattlers. 1988(?) ANA stopped dead in its tracks.

Pretzel, Blodgett....

abitofthisabitofthat · September 17, 2012 9:17PM

Noe

coindeuce · September 18, 2012 12:24AM

I believe that there is a class action lawsuit in progress against a Texas based corporate conglomerate.

MsMorrisine · September 18, 2012 12:59AM

i would consider the multitudes of sellers who sell TPG coins for significant premiums over market, even eBay Heritage w/BP, etc market, on going scams.

TahoeDale · September 18, 2012 1:40AM

Thanks to those that replied re some of the bigger scams in the coin business.

But specifically, is anyone aware of the scenerio asked in the OP?

A dealer or company( perhaps auction related) where coins were consigned or memo-ed
and the dealer sold the coins, keeping the proceeds, and never informed the owner
of the sales?

An estate that was consigned, and the heirs never received the proceeds?

It may be more difficult to conduct this scam in coins vs. Art.

COALPORTER · September 18, 2012 1:47AM

I think the FTC went after coin dealers over Morgan investment
scams back in the 1980s? I think some dealers were also busted
for overgrading coins too much.

coindeuce · September 18, 2012 1:51AM

I would always consider the Treasury Bureau sale of the Fenton 1933 Saint to be a scam.

MsMorrisine · September 18, 2012 1:51AM

<< <i>Thanks to those that replied re some of the bigger scams in the coin business.

But specifically, is anyone aware of the scenerio asked in the OP?

A dealer or company( perhaps auction related) where coins were consigned or memo-ed
and the dealer sold the coins, keeping the proceeds, and never informed the owner
of the sales?

An estate that was consigned, and the heirs never received the proceeds?

It may be more difficult to conduct this scam in coins vs. Art. >>

I think there was a story posted here where the sales scam person sold some old gold out from under a little old lady whom she convinced to buy them. this was in NY somewhere, possibly NYC or LI.

Moldnut · September 18, 2012 1:52AM

PM sent

mrearlygold · September 18, 2012 2:30AM

Richard Kayne, and Edward Kalp who ran an operation out of Boston, and Fla ripping financial planners and investor type people for 44 million dollars selling coins as ms-65 that in actuality were about uncirculated, some of which sold with bogus grading certificates. Circa early-mid 80's.

mrearlygold · September 18, 2012 2:32AM

<< <i>I would always consider the Treasury Bureau sale of the Fenton 1933 Saint to be a scam.

>>

Yup, seized and sold to help pay down the national debt.

MsMorrisine · September 18, 2012 2:39AM

not the one I was thinking about but here is one

TahoeDale · September 18, 2012 5:26AM

This thread was just a reminder to all who wish to sell coins at some time in their hobby career.

There are enough scams and dishonest sellers/dealer that you must know with whom you are dealing.
And that they are credit worthy, and will not need your coins to support a lifestyle they cannot afford.

And one more caveat: Even with all the knowledge of the honesty of a dealer, I lost money
several years ago, when a good friend and dealer died suddenly, with coins on memo from me. The estate was in bad financial trouble,
and the proceeds from a sale of one of the coins never made it to me.

Ahrensdad · September 18, 2012 7:04AM

Wasnt there a dealer just in the last several months that took lots of coins on consignment from other dealers then skipped town... I think they're still trying to track that guy down, but I haven't heard anything in a while. I'm thinking this was in May/June.

renomedphys · September 18, 2012 7:54AM

Think of all the money wasted on 50-D nickels. Would it be considered a scam to deliberately orchestrate another scenario like this? Say, with 70-s small date cents, or another underrated issue? How many would you have to buy before the prices went through the roof?

Have there been any large scams in the coin business, like the art scams?

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