I've had a few OGH that I've sent in for reholdering - I noticed that the old 7 digit number on the OGH now has a 0 preceding it. That's the only time I"ve seen it happen so there is still a way to tell some of the coins that came out of OGH. How ever it is not fool proof because I don't know at what point PCGS went to an 8 digit format
<< <i>I've had a few OGH that I've sent in for reholdering - I noticed that the old 7 digit number on the OGH now has a 0 preceding it. That's the only time I"ve seen it happen so there is still a way to tell some of the coins that came out of OGH. How ever it is not fool proof because I don't know at what point PCGS went to an 8 digit format >>
The 0 in the beginning of a cert number can also mean it was a show special. I have coins slabbed at both Baltimore and Long Beach with the 0 in front.
<< <i> Let's be fair.....it isn't about the label "color" as much as it is about when the label was done. As said by myself and a few others, telling when a coin was slabbed is helpful in knowing that it (most likely) wasn't messed with and has been stable for many years. That is what the "OGH" means to some of us. If the holder color was changed overnight, to green, I don't think having your coin slabbed in it would get your dealer to go back up to the $925 price.
That said, there are definitely those who buy the slab/label as well as the coin (think doily/black slab/etc), but in this case, you have a very cool toned coin that was slabbed years ago...it has proven some stability that way. Reslab it and it is open to the environment again, at the least, and all bets are off to anyone buying the coin after that as it no longer has that history. >>
So it didn't matter that the dealer and I both had photos of the coin looking exactly the same in the OGH. So not only did we both know that the coin was slabbed a long time ago, we had physical proof from the old photos. But perhaps I am a bit naive about OGH's or how things work in the coin biz. From my perspective, it seemed to me that we both had proof the coin was stable and slabbed a long time ago, what I lost was the actual physical green label slab.
It's interesting how the perspective of some on this board is "It's about the COIN not the plastic" ... and to others it appears "the plastic matters".
All I know is from my limited real world experiences , cracking a coin out of an OGH does seems to reduce it's value. I have seen that "value impact" verified from dealers and collectors alike.
So that leads me full circle back to my question listed in my OP.
It seems my only option would be to have this coin shot through the slab plastic. >>
I was not the dealer who offered you 25% less for a coin after it was cracked from an OGH and placed into a new holder, but I can understand where the dealer is coming from very easily. Many collectors prefer the OGH vs. the new holder and this can make the same theoretical coin in two different holders (OGH vs. new) more liquid in the OGH. You have seen this first hand. Liquidity is another form of value and dealers need to be able to purchase value and have liquidity in their inventory. You removed part of the liquidity of the coin with having it put into a new holder and, thus, the value was not the same to the dealer. Was the value worth 25% less? In this instance, with this coin, to this dealer that is apparently the case.
For a real world example, there have been a few coins that I have sold in old holders that the new owners have decided, for whatever reason, to have reholdered. Sometimes these coins come back up for sale and I have never repurchased one of these coins even when I had the opportunity to buy the coin back at below my initial cost. In each case the value of the product was lower and the liquidity, based upon the desire of my clients, had dropped.
<< <i>I've had a few OGH that I've sent in for reholdering - I noticed that the old 7 digit number on the OGH now has a 0 preceding it. That's the only time I"ve seen it happen so there is still a way to tell some of the coins that came out of OGH. How ever it is not fool proof because I don't know at what point PCGS went to an 8 digit format >>
A quick look at my collection revealed at least 30 coins with an 8-digit number and a lead zero, in non-OGH holders. I doubt they were reholdered OGH's.
out of curiosity I grabbed a coin # 0xxxxxxx that I bought from an auction - not reholdered by me - punched in the PCGS cert. verification , pulled up an old auction and it was at that point in an OGH . so if you suspect it was in an OGH at somepoint,this will verify the fact for some coins- not fool proof by any means though
I would be curious to see a study on how much premium an OGH adds on average. I would guess, based on some anecdotal evidence and some observations, that an OGH might add, on average, somewhere between 10% and 30% to the ultimate selling price of a coin. Though I am sure there are probably some cases with even higher premiums. I am thinking that on the high end of that scale are colorfully toned coins, where the OGH gives relevant information on the length of time in the slab and the stability of the color.
I also wonder if perhaps upgrade potential of OGH's might be a bit overstated (overestimated) today ... that is, if most of the existing OGH's with clearly under-graded coins might have already been upgraded. Certainly if you are paying a significant premium up front, making money through OGH upgrades sounds like a gamble that might not pay off very often.
<< <i>If you could reholder OGH they won't be worth what the OGH brings >>
We don't know that. If the plastic around a label and coin can be replaced with plastic that makes it easier to see the coin and/or protects it better, the current arguments for an old holder being worth more, other than to the people who collect only the plastic, are nullified. The current set of maxims for justifying paying or charging more or less for a coin in a slab, many of which may be BS, will need to be replaced by a new set.
<< <i>If you could reholder OGH they won't be worth what the OGH brings >>
That may be true. The whole purpose of the OGH label is to say that the coin has been entombed in plastic that has been protecting it from some elements for the past decade or so which attests more to its stability, especially for copper. However, if the coin is cracked out to be imaged and then reholdered, who knows what kind of foreign materials will get on the coin in that transfer.
<< <i>If you could reholder OGH they won't be worth what the OGH brings >>
That may be true. The whole purpose of the OGH label is to say that the coin has been entombed in plastic that has been protecting it from some elements for the past decade or so which attests more to its stability, especially for copper. However, if the coin is cracked out to be imaged and then reholdered, who knows what kind of foreign materials will get on the coin in that transfer. >>
If PCGS did this transfer completely, would that be ok, or do you just mean the air?
Comments
the old 7 digit number on the OGH now has a 0 preceding it. That's the only time I"ve
seen it happen so there is still a way to tell some of the coins that came out of OGH.
How ever it is not fool proof because I don't know at what point PCGS went to an
8 digit format
<< <i>I've had a few OGH that I've sent in for reholdering - I noticed that
the old 7 digit number on the OGH now has a 0 preceding it. That's the only time I"ve
seen it happen so there is still a way to tell some of the coins that came out of OGH.
How ever it is not fool proof because I don't know at what point PCGS went to an
8 digit format >>
The 0 in the beginning of a cert number can also mean it was a show special. I have coins slabbed at both Baltimore and Long Beach with the 0 in front.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
was present at so never ran accross that.
<< <i>
<< <i> Let's be fair.....it isn't about the label "color" as much as it is about when the label was done.
As said by myself and a few others, telling when a coin was slabbed is helpful in knowing that it (most likely) wasn't messed with and has been stable for many years.
That is what the "OGH" means to some of us. If the holder color was changed overnight, to green, I don't think having your coin slabbed in it would get your dealer to go back up to the $925 price.
That said, there are definitely those who buy the slab/label as well as the coin (think doily/black slab/etc), but in this case, you have a very cool toned coin that was slabbed years ago...it has proven some stability that way. Reslab it and it is open to the environment again, at the least, and all bets are off to anyone buying the coin after that as it no longer has that history. >>
So it didn't matter that the dealer and I both had photos of the coin looking exactly the same in the OGH. So not only did we both know that the coin was slabbed a long time ago, we had physical proof from the old photos. But perhaps I am a bit naive about OGH's or how things work in the coin biz. From my perspective, it seemed to me that we both had proof the coin was stable and slabbed a long time ago, what I lost was the actual physical green label slab.
It's interesting how the perspective of some on this board is "It's about the COIN not the plastic" ... and to others it appears "the plastic matters".
All I know is from my limited real world experiences , cracking a coin out of an OGH does seems to reduce it's value. I have seen that "value impact" verified from dealers and collectors alike.
So that leads me full circle back to my question listed in my OP.
It seems my only option would be to have this coin shot through the slab plastic. >>
I was not the dealer who offered you 25% less for a coin after it was cracked from an OGH and placed into a new holder, but I can understand where the dealer is coming from very easily. Many collectors prefer the OGH vs. the new holder and this can make the same theoretical coin in two different holders (OGH vs. new) more liquid in the OGH. You have seen this first hand. Liquidity is another form of value and dealers need to be able to purchase value and have liquidity in their inventory. You removed part of the liquidity of the coin with having it put into a new holder and, thus, the value was not the same to the dealer. Was the value worth 25% less? In this instance, with this coin, to this dealer that is apparently the case.
For a real world example, there have been a few coins that I have sold in old holders that the new owners have decided, for whatever reason, to have reholdered. Sometimes these coins come back up for sale and I have never repurchased one of these coins even when I had the opportunity to buy the coin back at below my initial cost. In each case the value of the product was lower and the liquidity, based upon the desire of my clients, had dropped.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
<< <i>I've had a few OGH that I've sent in for reholdering - I noticed that
the old 7 digit number on the OGH now has a 0 preceding it. That's the only time I"ve
seen it happen so there is still a way to tell some of the coins that came out of OGH.
How ever it is not fool proof because I don't know at what point PCGS went to an
8 digit format >>
A quick look at my collection revealed at least 30 coins with an 8-digit number and a lead zero, in non-OGH holders. I doubt they were reholdered OGH's.
Nice idea but I don't think it works.
Lance.
me - punched in the PCGS cert. verification , pulled up an old auction and it was at that
point in an OGH . so if you suspect it was in an OGH at somepoint,this will verify the fact
for some coins- not fool proof by any means though
I would be curious to see a study on how much premium an OGH adds on average. I would guess, based on some anecdotal evidence and some observations, that an OGH might add, on average, somewhere between 10% and 30% to the ultimate selling price of a coin. Though I am sure there are probably some cases with even higher premiums. I am thinking that on the high end of that scale are colorfully toned coins, where the OGH gives relevant information on the length of time in the slab and the stability of the color.
I also wonder if perhaps upgrade potential of OGH's might be a bit overstated (overestimated) today ... that is, if most of the existing OGH's with clearly under-graded coins might have already been upgraded. Certainly if you are paying a significant premium up front, making money through OGH upgrades sounds like a gamble that might not pay off very often.
My Coin Blog
My Toned Lincoln Registry Set
<< <i>If you could reholder OGH they won't be worth what the OGH brings >>
We don't know that. If the plastic around a label and coin can be replaced with plastic that makes it easier to see the coin and/or protects it better, the current arguments for an old holder being worth more, other than to the people who collect only the plastic, are nullified. The current set of maxims for justifying paying or charging more or less for a coin in a slab, many of which may be BS, will need to be replaced by a new set.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
<< <i>If you could reholder OGH they won't be worth what the OGH brings >>
That may be true. The whole purpose of the OGH label is to say that the coin has been entombed in plastic that has been protecting it from some elements for the past decade or so which attests more to its stability, especially for copper. However, if the coin is cracked out to be imaged and then reholdered, who knows what kind of foreign materials will get on the coin in that transfer.
<< <i>
<< <i>If you could reholder OGH they won't be worth what the OGH brings >>
That may be true. The whole purpose of the OGH label is to say that the coin has been entombed in plastic that has been protecting it from some elements for the past decade or so which attests more to its stability, especially for copper. However, if the coin is cracked out to be imaged and then reholdered, who knows what kind of foreign materials will get on the coin in that transfer. >>
If PCGS did this transfer completely, would that be ok, or do you just mean the air?
It seems some things drift by design in this life.
Eric