The Stamp Forum seems kinda Dead........Is that

OldEastside · September 6, 2012 2:39AM

the future of coins if we go to a cashless society?

Steve

braddick · September 6, 2012 2:41AM

No, I don't think so.

291fifth · September 6, 2012 2:50AM

If we ever actually go to a cashless society coin collecting will fade quickly. Even the "kings" won't care about it anymore.

Out of sight, out of mind.

lordmarcovan · September 6, 2012 3:13AM

I don't think so. Even when coins become obsolete as a medium of exchange, they are still a link to history.

There are Roman emperors and Dark Age kings who are known only from their coins. Such coins will always be important.

The same is not quite as true for stamps, simply because they don't go as far back in time. There will always be collectors of those, too, but probably not as many.

Just because flintlock Kentucky rifles are obsolete as weaponry doesn't mean there aren't collectors who'd pay an arm and a leg for one. You should have seen the one my granddaddy had over his mantelpiece. Probably Rev War era, tiger maple stock, octagonal barrel, pristine condition. I don't know much about guns but that one was a beauty, and had a real historical aura in my eyes when I was a kid.

BobSav · September 6, 2012 3:16AM

I think were closer that you think, people in quicky marts using the debit card to buy 50 cents cold drinks and such.

I went into a McDonalds a while back and they were in a panic because their card readers we not working and no one could pay for their food..

CASH whats that ?

michiganboy · September 6, 2012 4:07AM

Classic coins are a lot more then the paper stamp. Encased postage and certain other stamp issues still have considerable value, but definitly the collectors are not out there like they used to be. I can personally see why though there are just to many stamps that hold little value even with age and have no intrinsic value as well.

johnny9434 · September 6, 2012 5:30AM

<< If we ever actually go to a cashless society coin collecting will fade quickly. Even the "kings" won't care about it anymore.

Out of sight, out of mind. >>

i dont think it will be totally dead thou. who knows, will find out soon enough

COALPORTER · September 6, 2012 6:34AM

Maybe, but it may take awhile. Yes, at some point all things end. It probably wont
happen fast enough for any of use to get good deal. (can you imagine someone
tossing out 1804 dollars like used bottle caps?)

They still make stamps, so I guess stamp collecting died for some other reason?

djcnonlinear · September 6, 2012 6:43AM

Although the hobby has been slowly dwindling for many years, there's still a fairly active market in high grade, problem free (just like coins) classic material for the first century or so of stamps, especially for 'better' countries (U.S., British Empire, Germany, etc.)

I think stamps began to go under with the targeted marketing of collectors, which exploded in the sixties. The first hundred years of worldwide philately can be contained in half a dozen (admittedly thick) albums, but as we reach the 1960s era it takes two or more PER YEAR to hold the glut of modern issues. Further, more and more countries issue literally thousands of issues yearly of dubious legitimacy. The explosion of thematic (WWF, cars, birds, space) sets from countries like the Gambia that were never intended to be used... many countries aren't even listed in the Scott catalogs anymore for that reason.

Too many issues, just for collectors, for-profit-only postal systems that don't ever deliver mail...

Sadly, coins may head the same way if modern mints don't reign in the 'novelty' and 'collector oriented only' junk. At a certain point, "serious" collectors grow tired of all the nonsense being churned out for profit that never is going to circulate. And it, unfortunately, seems to cast a suspicious eye back on the old classics as well.

Just my two cents, anyway.

Dollar2007 · September 6, 2012 6:51AM

<< I think were closer that you think, people in quicky marts using the debit card to buy 50 cents cold drinks and such.

I went into a McDonalds a while back and they were in a panic because their card readers we not working and no one could pay for their food..

CASH whats that ? >>

I think things may be going slightly back to more people using cash. The new credit card rules passed earlier this year allow cash discounts to be offered for not using a card, and minimum purchase requirements to be set. You already see it at gas stations where the cash price is a few cents cheaper per gallon. There will be a cash resurgence in the next couple years as credit card rewards start to fall and people become mindful of how much credit card fees cost merchants. Especially when people have to start paying for it.

yellowkid · September 6, 2012 6:57AM

There are so many things to collect these days, when I was a kid it was either coins or stamps. Now you a hundred directions you can go in for a collection. I think a cashless society would hurt the industry in a short time period.

MsMorrisine · September 6, 2012 6:59AM

we're not a stampless society

Klif50 · September 6, 2012 8:00AM

I have collected coins and stamps since about 1961. I gravitated more towards coins since I couldn't really afford the big stamps but could get fairly nice coins at good prices based on how much grass I cut. Over the years both collections grew and in 1984 I divested myself of both collections. This was a time when XF Bust Halves were trading at 35 to 40 bucks each. At the same time the zeppelin stamps were in the thousands, the baby zepp (C-18) was 400 or 500 dollars for a nice copy and the $5 stamps (1053) plate block was a $400 plate block. I regret getting rid of all m coins but it was a necessity at the time and since them I've taken several runs at rebuilding the collection but as I age and my sight gets worse then my ability to pick out really nice stuff suffers. On the other hand I have replaced almost my whole stamp collection for some where between 10 and 15 percent of what I sold everything for (I had a lot of British penny blacks and penny reds etc along with my US collection). I haven't rebought the British stamps although they were quite interesting when you tried to reassemble a sheet since each stamp had the sheet position on it. That 1053 $5 plate block that I sold for $400 was replaced for $75. My C-18 came certified for $65. As stamp doctors got better at replacing perfs, replacing original glue and eliminating hinge remnants I became less able to really "see" what I was buying so I was happy that I could get my stamps already graded and encapsulated.

I would really like to see coins drop back to the rates of the early 80's after the big run up and then the big crash so that I could replace a lot of the ones that were sold and I miss them, not for their values so much, as for what history they told and what they represented. Would I wish a coin crash on anyone, probably not since so many people make their living and have their savings and retirement tied up in them but I would love to be able to buy the coins at the same prices I used to pay.

So, if we go cashless, the coins will still be here. You'll notice that most discussions are about the older coins, not the new stuff. Same with the stamps, the older, rarer stuff is still being sought after but if you want to buy a few million dollars worth of Simpson stamps they you might be able to pick them up for a discount.

SDSportsFan · September 6, 2012 12:11PM

My dad collected stamps and coins pretty-much his entire life. He quit in the early 1990s when the US Postal Service started coming out with too many stamps commemorating too many different subjects. Another big reason he and so many others quit collecting is the Postal Service's move away from the selling of single stamps. With the move to pregummed stamps, collectors could no longer obtain single stamps from their post office. They had to buy an entire sheet of 20 stamps. Instead of paying 30 cents or so for each stamp, they had to pay $6 for each. Multiply that by the number of stamps being issued, and the cost just became way too prohibitive. I guess someone could say a collector could have used all the extra stamps for actual postage, but I know from first-hand experience, that is extremely difficult. My dad died in 2001, and I got his stamp collection. I STILL have stamps that I'm using from his collection, for normal postage. In the past 11 years, I've only had to buy a few 1, 2 or 5 cent stamps to make up the difference with whatever the current postal rate was/is at the time of use. Now, I rarely if ever mail anything, since like pretty much everyone else, I do all my communicating and monetary transactions electronically, and I don't sell anything that would have to be mailed.

I personally don't see coins following that same path.

Steve

grote15 · September 6, 2012 3:41PM

There's a stamp forum??

originalisbest · September 6, 2012 3:53PM

Much ado about nothing. Short answer is no. As to the stamp forum, there is one here, but taint nobody on it. Doesn't mean stamp collecting is dead by any means, or that the classics of US and many other countries are quite desirable. It's simply a market that is mostly befuddling to most coin collectors. Sort of like how marbles and doorknob collecting is foreign to me, but there are examples of those quite popular and expensive still.

Zoins · September 6, 2012 4:08PM

<< Much ado about nothing. Short answer is no. As to the stamp forum, there is one here, but taint nobody on it. Doesn't mean stamp collecting is dead by any means, or that the classics of US and many other countries are quite desirable. It's simply a market that is mostly befuddling to most coin collectors. Sort of like how marbles and doorknob collecting is foreign to me, but there are examples of those quite popular and expensive still. >>

It almost sounds like you're saying stamp collecting is alive and well. Is that correct?

originalisbest · September 6, 2012 4:33PM

That's what I'm saying.

But don't look to the stamps forum here for evidence of it. Nor the "local stamp B&M" (though there are some around, that's a rarity.) David Hall recently did a plug for a rare stamp dealer in NY that he sourced his personal upside down 1918 jenny through... check out stampcommunity.org and stampboards.com, there are others but those two spring to mind. Post '30s US stamps (excepting the zepps) are pretty cheap; earlier ones can be too, and can also be quite pricey, depending on condition and demand. Like anything.

originalisbest · September 6, 2012 4:36PM

Remembering now there was once also a rare records forum here; I imagine there are still collectors of these, but the forum is gonesville.

LochNESS · September 6, 2012 5:35PM

This debate (cash vs. cashless society) is irrelevant, as most collectable coins are non-modern / obsoletes. If you argue that oldies like large cents and walker halves are still collectible because they have face value, then what difference does it make if our modern-day payments are plastic and electronic? The dollar will still be a dollar, and your coins will still have face value.

Many of us collect world coins, yet we do not live in those countries, and many of those countries no longer exist (think ancients and micronations).

I rest my case

Shamika · September 6, 2012 9:29PM

It occurs to me that people are not likly to come to the PCGS forum to discuss stamps.

MrHalfDime · September 6, 2012 9:32PM

If we ever do go to a completely cashless society, people will continue to collect classic coins, just like all other antiques.

Klif50 · September 6, 2012 10:24PM

I collect depression and carnival glass. I don't believe people actually eat off the plates anymore and the dishes don't come in boxes of detergent nor do you get them with a fill up at the local full service gas station but there is still a market and market makers. I don't need a forum to discuss them, I know what I need to know and I know the go to people. If we go cashless it doesn't make coins less desirable any more than modern gun powder makes black powder weapons less desirable to the people who collect them.

Just because something isn't used in commerce doesn't make it less collectible, but if coins disappear from use then the influx of next collectors will probably diminish unless some nice folks get out and about and do some education and show and tell.

Oh, I collect primitive tools, pottery and weapons from the Native American period (prior to it all being made in China) and it's not used much but in day to day life but is still desirable.

HalfStrike · September 6, 2012 11:23PM

Paper stamps are more like paper currency than coins, I would be sweating bullets sitting on all paper.

Weiss · September 6, 2012 11:40PM

Other than relative small size, there are essentially no similarities between coins and stamps. They are in fact virtual opposites.

Whoever made and reinforced what few weak connections there are between the two did coins an enormous disservice.

Collect whatever you like. But lumping coins and stamps together makes as much sense as lumping coins and marbles together, or coins and draft cards.

There will never be a cashless society. Coins will always be collected.

RichR · September 7, 2012 12:29AM

What are these things you call "stamps"?

Klif50 · September 7, 2012 1:20AM

The lumping of stamps and coins together was a natural progression for shops. That is one reason so many B&M shops really didn't make it. You have to know both areas and since a lot of coin collectors used to be stamp collectors they would go to the one stop shop to pick up some envelopes, mounts, look at plateblocks and then look at Harco coin albums (the one album that ruined more coins than another other album due to their PVC loaded pages and slides). As stamps slowed down the coin shops began leaning toward comic books and baseball cards, trying to be everything to everybody. Last shop I was in, probably in the mid 90's was full of beanie babies, collectible cards, comic books, role playing games, a small coin counter and an even smaller stock of stamp supplies. All these hobbies are forever intertwined.

Klif50 · September 7, 2012 1:23AM

<< It occurs to me that people are not likly to come to the PCGS forum to discuss stamps. >>

Lately I come to the PCGS coin forum to talk about guns and the latest ebay ripoffs and watch the back stabbing and back biting that goes on in every other thread. It's good entertainment for a little while and then it wears on you after a while and then I go back to not reading or posting for a while.

Anyone want to talk about collecting Lionel Trains?

BaseballAbs · September 7, 2012 1:56AM

<< If we ever do go to a completely cashless society, people will continue to collect classic coins, just like all other antiques. >>

originalisbest · September 7, 2012 2:13AM

Lionel trains are really cool, but like many areas of specialty collecting, it's easy to get burned if you don't know what you're doing. Like paying big bucks for "originality" but then finding your prewar set has been "worked on" -- nothing wrong with such an item unless it's represented as original.

SaorAlba · September 7, 2012 4:57AM

<< we're not a stampless society >>

I buy stamps maybe once a year. I don't mail bills anymore, they are all paid online. Just an occasional greeting card is it. No wonder the PO is going broke.

Klif50 · September 7, 2012 5:17AM

I run a home business and mail hard copy invoices to all my customers. Most will not accept email or fax (just the nature of the business). So I buy 2 rolls of stamps a week. I had one of those Whitney Bowes postage machines but between the rest on the machine and the cost of the ink cartridges and the paper strips it was cost prohibitive. So, I keep my local post office in business. Plus I get an awful lot of ebay packages through the mail. Maybe 2 out of 50 come UPS or Fedex. But I don't soak any of the stamps off anything and hinge them in an album these days.

Klif50 · September 7, 2012 5:21AM

<< Lionel trains are really cool, but like many areas of specialty collecting, it's easy to get burned if you don't know what you're doing. Like paying big bucks for "originality" but then finding your prewar set has been "worked on" -- nothing wrong with such an item unless it's represented as original. >>

Too true story on the Lionels. There are some major train doctors out there. One of the biggest rip offs a few years back was people selling the empty boxes that the sets came in during the 40's and early 50's and original containers (mostly just cardboard boxes with the Lionel emblem on each side) were going for moon money. Lots of fakes got produced.

Now I would mind if someone could grade and slab some of my earlier engines and rolling stock as well as some accessories from back in the time when you could put someones eye out with that (mobile missile launchers, exploding target cars and helicopter launching cars).

But, bottom line, it's like they say, you can never have too many guns, too much ammo, too much gold and silver or too many hobbies and he who dies with the most toys leaves happy relatives behind.

originalisbest · September 7, 2012 5:54AM

Klif50, I like (and approve of!) that sentiment!

originalisbest · September 7, 2012 5:59AM

<< I run a home business and mail hard copy invoices to all my customers. Most will not accept email or fax (just the nature of the business). So I buy 2 rolls of stamps a week. I had one of those Whitney Bowes postage machines but between the rest on the machine and the cost of the ink cartridges and the paper strips it was cost prohibitive. So, I keep my local post office in business. Plus I get an awful lot of ebay packages through the mail. Maybe 2 out of 50 come UPS or Fedex. But I don't soak any of the stamps off anything and hinge them in an album these days. >>

With the above, you remind me of an interesting observation on stampboards.com (and probably other places too) -- it's apparently a mark of philatelic disrespect, to allow the P.O. to slap a metered label on your package, vs. asking them for and applying a variety of new definitives or preferably, commem stamps to make up the rate -- allows future collectors to have pieces used for legitimate purpose during their time of issue. I do see their point!

And as for soaking and hinging, there's quite a variety of people trying to come up with ways to soak the self-adhesives stamps off paper -- mostly involving toeleune/lighter fluid. No thanks for my part -- if I want a used example of such a stamp in an album, I'd just leave it on paper!

The Stamp Forum seems kinda Dead........Is that

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