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1990 Donruss Aqeuous Test packs
tunahead08
Posts: 1,060 ✭✭✭
Anyone win any of the packs that ended a couple of days ago?
0
tunahead08
Posts: 1,060 ✭✭✭
tunahead08
Posts: 1,060 ✭✭✭
tunahead08
Posts: 1,060 ✭✭✭
tunahead08
Posts: 1,060 ✭✭✭
Comments
Nolan $1800
Will Clark $1300
Mattingly $1200
Puckett $1000
Mattingly $1000
Puckett $900
McGwire $800
Puckett $700
Ozzie $500
R.Sandberg $500
Checklist $500
Dale Murphy $500
R.Sandberg $400
Juan Gone $300
Ripken $300
...plus tons more cards that sold for under $300. I personally think there's more to this story to come.
<< <i>Does anyone have a link to the pack listings? If not how much did they go for and how many cards per pack? >>
Pack Listings (all completed)
Robb
He could tell based on the visible card what cards were in the pack from prior experience opening them. My guess is they are filled with the $2-10 cards he is selling and he knows that. That is the only explanation that makes sense to me.
Kevin
and frankly, $200-$250 for a pack that could yield nothing but jose deleon and mitch webster is a great get for the seller... he's transferred all the risk to the buyer... including the risk that the packs have been searched and re-sealed... naturally, we won't know what was in the 8 packs until the new owners begin selling the contents... assuming they do that... if the contents are all commons, they'll be lucky to recover 25% of their investment in the packs....
at this stage, those packs are a better investment "sealed"...
Seeing as how nobody has ever heard of these "packs" before.....my guess would be, he either knew the sequencing (possible) and knew that there were no good cards inside or the packs were "created" (Extremely Likely)
from my experience, the cards appear legit... so, i hope for the sake of the recent buyers that the packs are, too...
based on pics from the pack seller, it appears that there might be more cards per pack than the packs indicate.... donruss lists 3 puzzle pieces and 10 cards per pack... but, the photo gives the impression that there are 15 cards per pack with only 1 puzzle piece...
if this is the case, it certainly suggests to me that these cards were intentionally packed since an accidental placement of the sheets with other sheets to be packed for sale would logically have resulted in the normal pack of 10 cards/3 puzzles and, theoretically, would have resulted in some mixed packs with both regular and aqueous cards...
i'm guessing that the seller knew the contents simply because these packs came from boxes that had yielded nothing but aqueous test issues.. it's also possible that you can see the end card and the words "aqueous test" through the wrappers...
i realize that somebody could easily locate an unopened box of 90 donruss... carefully unwrap some packs... pull out the regular cards and add some aqueous cards and re-seal the packs...
but, why would you put 15 "rare" cards in place of 10 common cards? that doesn't make sense to me...
if anything you could put fewer cards per pack and just suggest that this is the way they came from donruss... who would really know for sure...
I had emailed Chandy a couple years ago... I'm terrible at cleaning out my mail... so here was his story on the 1990 Donruss test issues
"Hi---thanks for your note.....yes, I was one of the original purchaser of these cards....I think there was one other purchaser on the aqueous test cards somewhere in the Milwaukee area; while there may be another source for the blue/white cards, I haven't found it yet.....peculiar story how I came across this group; I sent this e-mail out several years ago and saved a copy....have copied it on here for you.....best wishes, Chandy
I bought them with ABSOLUTELY no idea what I was getting.......had a phone call one Saturday morning from a gentleman who explained that he was an ex-employee at Donruss (actually, packaging director). He told me that he had been given a few wax boxes when he left the company and wondered if we were buying....he explained that they were 1988-1992 product, and that there were 20 boxes, mostly 1990-1992 Donruss and Leaf along with a few 1988 Donruss........really exciting stuff......well, maybe not......
He mentioned one 1990 Leaf box, and I made him an offer on the group equal to the value of that one box, since everything else he listed was what I would call junk wax which I figured to be my profit on the deal.
At any rate, he arrived at my store just as I was leaving for my daughter's soccer game (I was team coach and had to be there).....we had agreed on a price, so my assistant paid him and he left (without any conversation with me at all).
When I returned to the store later that afternoon, my assistant had moved the boxes back to the back room. I took a quick look and noted that there were 3 boxes which were not regular Donruss boxes, but rather plain white cardboard boxes with a memo, something to the effect of "Donruss Canada", on the side.....at this point, I opened one of the boxes (in regular 1990 Donruss wrappers) and encountered a pack full of the "blue-white" cards from this ad......having been a collector of and fascinated by proofs, errors, and variations all my collecting career, I about went through the ceiling......but had no way to contact the person I bought them from for any information.
After looking at those, I started perusing all of the other boxes and discovered that the boxes of 1990 Donruss cellos I had purchased all had the "Aqueous Test" overprint on the backs of the cards inside (see some of my other ads).
As you can see, all of these cards came from packs....they weren't cut from sheets, although I'm sure that with these as with any card product, there was an uncut sheet at one time........my guess is that they were different ink tests, one for color, the other for water solubility, but I don't know anything more than you do in that area......"
Kevin
So for your 2nd one that you had won, it got lost in the mail, but he had another to send?
<< <i>based on pics from the pack seller, it appears that there might be more cards per pack than the packs indicate.... donruss lists 3 puzzle pieces and 10 cards per pack... but, the photo gives the impression that there are 15 cards per pack with only 1 puzzle piece... >>
A single puzzle card (inserted at a rate of 1 per pack) yields 3 puzzle pieces, so that's where the "3" comes from on the packs of Donruss cards from this era.
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
<< <i>So he opens one pack and sells the raw singles for ~$2000. He then sells the other 7 unopened packs for ~$1900 combined. Have to say I am a bit skeptical.
Robb >>
He auctioned them all at one time. Maybe he thought they'd go for much higher prices.
<< <i>Hey Kevin,
So for your 2nd one that you had won, it got lost in the mail, but he had another to send? >>
Yes. I have purchased a total of three myself. I have two and one got lost in the mail.
Kevin
<< <i>
Yes. I have purchased a total of three myself. I have two and one got lost in the mail.
Kevin >>
Nice, here's hoping that one was pulled from a pack too and gets a nice grade!
So that would put the Ripken's that I know of at 8 total, minus 1 now that is lost in the mail
The starting bid on these packs was very low...I think only $75. for each auction. Those that question why he sold him so low need to think about though. They only sell for what people bid if it is an actual auction. I doubt very highly the seller thought this was all he would get. I didn't bid on the first auction because I figured it would go for triple what it actually did. Like several bidders after the first pack or two went so low I started bidding thinking that earlier I'd never be able to afford any. This was especially after I saw the Mattingly single go from $380. with 15 minutes to go in the auction to almost $1300. at the end. I expected a lot of high rolling snipers for the packs but they never showed up.
Ok so what I really want to know is if you guys were sitting on these two packs of cards what would you do with them? The high-roller in me says open them up and see what you got and the smarter, more economical side of me says I should try to sell them for some profit. Thoughts???
<< <i>I won two of the packs. I have been kicking myself in the hiney since though because I bid on almost all of the packs and because I bid so low I only got the two.
The starting bid on these packs was very low...I think only $75. for each auction. Those that question why he sold him so low need to think about though. They only sell for what people bid if it is an actual auction. I doubt very highly the seller thought this was all he would get. I didn't bid on the first auction because I figured it would go for triple what it actually did. Like several bidders after the first pack or two went so low I started bidding thinking that earlier I'd never be able to afford any. This was especially after I saw the Mattingly single go from $380. with 15 minutes to go in the auction to almost $1300. at the end. I expected a lot of high rolling snipers for the packs but they never showed up.
Ok so what I really want to know is if you guys were sitting on these two packs of cards what would you do with them? The high-roller in me says open them up and see what you got and the smarter, more economical side of me says I should try to sell them for some profit. Thoughts??? >>
Easy, open one and go from there.
Collecting Robin Ventura and Matt Luke.
<< <i>I won two of the packs. I have been kicking myself in the hiney since though because I bid on almost all of the packs and because I bid so low I only got the two.
The starting bid on these packs was very low...I think only $75. for each auction. Those that question why he sold him so low need to think about though. They only sell for what people bid if it is an actual auction. I doubt very highly the seller thought this was all he would get. I didn't bid on the first auction because I figured it would go for triple what it actually did. Like several bidders after the first pack or two went so low I started bidding thinking that earlier I'd never be able to afford any. This was especially after I saw the Mattingly single go from $380. with 15 minutes to go in the auction to almost $1300. at the end. I expected a lot of high rolling snipers for the packs but they never showed up.
Ok so what I really want to know is if you guys were sitting on these two packs of cards what would you do with them? The high-roller in me says open them up and see what you got and the smarter, more economical side of me says I should try to sell them for some profit. Thoughts??? >>
I agree with the above poster, rip one and then decide on the other. I was trying to win 2 of the packs to do the same, but didn't bid hard enough
Kevin
Kevin
to ryan admirer... if you open the packs, then you run the risk of de-valuing your $200-plus per pack investment... unless, of course, you pull a mattingly or a puckett or something similar... even the 2 most recent ripken sales that i'm aware of only netted around $350... and, if you pull another cal, people might begin to wonder how many of these things really exist.... if we assume that what we've read is true, the next ripken is number 9 (at minimum---probably about 4 more than folks had banked on)...
on the bright side, if the photos were accurate, it looks like you have 15 chances per pack to hit it big... and you only need one "winner" per pack....
you might need to sit on these packs for a few years... you probably need to recover over $200 per pack to just break even... in other words, you need to have the snipers that never materialized last weekend show up for your auctions.... what are those odds?
worse still, what if the seller of your packs suddenly unveils 8 more for sale with a $75 opening bid or any bid that undercuts your opener? he may be tapped out of aqueous product, but do we really know that?
sorry to rain on the parade... but, i was wondering how long your seller sat on those packs before he opened enough to find that list of stars he sold, and also feel comfortable enough to sell the remaining unopened packs for more than what he paid for them a few years ago.... that $75 opening bid might have been his per pack "break even"... your "break even" point is much higher...
whatever you do... good luck...
<< <i>After looking at those, I started perusing all of the other boxes and discovered that the boxes of 1990 Donruss cellos I had purchased all had the "Aqueous Test" overprint on the backs of the cards inside (see some of my other ads). >>
The packs sold were wax packs. So they were packed in both cello and wax packs?
Collecting Robin Ventura and Matt Luke.
<< <i>Thanks for the opinions guys. There were many good points brought to light. I'm going to think about it for a few more days but I really like the thought of opening one and then going from there. Perhaps I'll videotape the whole thing and then post it somewhere for the enjoyment of others. As of right now they are still sitting in what they were shipped in. >>
If you decide to rip, definitely post the results!! Would love to see them!
<< <i>Well, now we know to check all 1990 Donruss wax for "10 card" wrappers. They didn't distribute 10-card packs as far as I know. >>
Hmm well there's a very good point... normal pack:
<< <i>So since the wrapping is different do you guys think psa would authenticate the packs? >>
It's hard to say, seems like they change what they'll authenticate on any given day. I did notice on a couple of the packs that you could see the backs of a couple of cards, so if they can see the Aqueous Test imprint, coupled with how the packs say 10 cards, they may authenticate. Would be very cool to see them in PSA holders. Would also be cool to see a nice high grade Ripken though
1989 Donruss Canadian Wax Box
With a little checking, it appears I was right:
1990 Donruss Canadian Wax Pack
I think the odds of getting those authenticated as Aqueous are slim and none.
<< <i>Here's a 1989 Donruss Canadian wax box with 10 cards per pack. I wonder if there is a 1990 Donruss Canadian that used those wrappers?
1989 Donruss Canadian Wax Box
With a little checking, it appears I was right:
1990 Donruss Canadian Wax Pack
I think the odds of getting those authenticated as Aqueous are slim and none. >>
This is interesting and possibly related to the "Chandy email" where he states that the box had a memo that mentioned Canada.
Collecting Robin Ventura and Matt Luke.
<< <i>Wouldn't it be awesome to see one of them slabbed at least as authentic? Good luck with that though. It was an uphill battle to get the Aqueous cards graded and I would imagine it would take a Herculean effort to get packs as rare as these graded. You might get them authenticated though. To me, if they are kept sealed, that would be worth something because I think their authenticity will always be in question due to the rarity and lack of information about their distribution.
Kevin >>
When PSA starts to authenticate 1991 Topps Desert Shield Packs, you'll see these begin to be.
Here's link to a pic of the Gwynn from the 1st pack. I haven't been on here long enough to figure out to post images differently (give me a little time, I'm not a complete idiot).
Also in pack #1-
#163 Joe Magrane
#164 Billy Ripken
#91 Tony Phillips
#86 Gwynn (pic)
Diamond King Dave Stewart (6)
#118 Glenn Davis
#157 Rick Sutcliffe
BC-5 Hershiser
#67 Walt Weiss
#72 Dave LaPoint
#85 Kevin Seitzer
#76 Ricky Jordan
#80 Danny Jackson
#113 Kelly Gruber
#110 Lee Smith
Oh and by the way yes you could see something through the bottom of the pack....but it was the puzzle piece. I made a videoclip of opening the box and the pack, if anybody wants to watch it let me know. I don't have it posted yet but will put the link up if anybody wants to see it.
My #2 Ranked Michael Jordan PSA Basic Set
Shane
<< <i>
Here's link to a pic of the Gwynn from the 1st pack. I haven't been on here long enough to figure out to post images differently (give me a little time, I'm not a complete idiot).
Also in pack #1-
#163 Joe Magrane
#164 Billy Ripken
#91 Tony Phillips
#86 Gwynn (pic)
Diamond King Dave Stewart (6)
#118 Glenn Davis
#157 Rick Sutcliffe
BC-5 Hershiser
#67 Walt Weiss
#72 Dave LaPoint
#85 Kevin Seitzer
#76 Ricky Jordan
#80 Danny Jackson
#113 Kelly Gruber
#110 Lee Smith
Oh and by the way yes you could see something through the bottom of the pack....but it was the puzzle piece. I made a videoclip of opening the box and the pack, if anybody wants to watch it let me know. I don't have it posted yet but will put the link up if anybody wants to see it. >>
Any interest in selling the Billy Ripken?
#166 Nolan Ryan
#190 Don Mattingly
#184 Roger Clemens
#168 Dale Murphy
#281 Ken Dayley
#265 David Cone
#258 Don Robinson
#196 Eric Plunk
#172 Jose Lind
#167 Damon Berryhill
#282 Mike Devereaux
#278 Von Hayes
#259 Phil Bradley
#191 Felix Fermin
#252 Rafael Belliard
They are real. I have another card for this seller and cards from Chandy that I checked them against. I am not sure why he did not bust them himself.
I was very excited about the Murph but would have been more excited if I had not already bought the other Murphy he had for sale a few months ago.
The others I am open to offers. I will most likely list a few to get some money back that I spent on the other Murphy.
Good luck to others that won packs, I think this was the most nervous I have been opening a pack ever and I have busted thousands.
Michael
<< <i>I won pack #1 and hit a mega pack. Here is my 15 card pack.
#166 Nolan Ryan
#190 Don Mattingly
#184 Roger Clemens
#168 Dale Murphy
#281 Ken Dayley
#265 David Cone
#258 Don Robinson
#196 Eric Plunk
#172 Jose Lind
#167 Damon Berryhill
#282 Mike Devereaux
#278 Von Hayes
#259 Phil Bradley
#191 Felix Fermin
#252 Rafael Belliard
They are real. I have another card for this seller and cards from Chandy that I checked them against. I am not sure why he did not bust them himself.
I was very excited about the Murph but would have been more excited if I had not already bought the other Murphy he had for sale a few months ago.
The others I am open to offers. I will most likely list a few to get some money back that I spent on the other Murphy.
Good luck to others that won packs, I think this was the most nervous I have been opening a pack ever and I have busted thousands.
Michael >>
Wow... nice $3,000 pack! That's the first one I was bidding on, guess I should have gone higher. Let's see some scans!
Robb
I may be interested in selling the B. Ripken...not sure what I'll do with these.
Most should grade pretty high if I send them in. I haven't seen a sale on any of these that are PSA since I've been out of collecting for a long time up until very recently. I've seen commons going anywhere from $5-15. depending on who's buying when they aren't graded. Is the markup for a graded one (say an "8") worth sending in? I figure somebody's had to sell some graded ones before.
My #2 Ranked Michael Jordan PSA Basic Set
<< <i>Congrats on that first pack...your cards more than made up for mine. I couldn't help myself and opened the second one last night, I'm pretty sure I pulled 14 commons with Eric Davis being the only high dollar card. Looking at selling prices I'd say I broke even but that's about it.
I may be interested in selling the B. Ripken...not sure what I'll do with these.
Most should grade pretty high if I send them in. I haven't seen a sale on any of these that are PSA since I've been out of collecting for a long time up until very recently. I've seen commons going anywhere from $5-15. depending on who's buying when they aren't graded. Is the markup for a graded one (say an "8") worth sending in? I figure somebody's had to sell some graded ones before. >>
I know it's probably a little disappointing, but at least you got the thrill of ripping a pack not too many people will get the chance to!