7 Years on. Battle Creek toned Morgan Dollars.
SkyMan
Posts: 9,493 ✭✭✭✭✭
In 2005 - 2006 there were 4 main auctions and 1 subsidiary auction of Battle Creek (BC) toned Morgan dollars. I am not a Morgan kind of a guy, but I stumbled upon the BC coins while browsing through Superior's auction boxes in late July 2005 for the first (BC-1) auction. I was stunned by the vibrancy of the coins, and hooked. I ended up in one format or another buying about 25 of the BC coins over time.
The toned Morgan dollar specialists believed the BC coins were NT and bid accordingly. However, due to the vibrancy of the coins, and the secrecy of the original dealer/buyer, there were a lot of comments about the coins being AT'ed. For the most part these comments were made by people who did not specialize in toned Morgans. These comments calmed down over time as the original dealer/buyer came forward in 2008. Also, over time many of the coins migrated from NGC plastic to PCGS plastic (sometimes with the BC designation kept, sometimes with the BC designation left behind).
Generally I keep my BC coins in the SDB, but I recently took some out to show to people at the Santa Clara show. They are as vibrant today as when I first laid eyes on them, and give me a warm fuzzy feeling to look at them. I had a little extra time today and updated my NGC Custom Set of Battle Creek coins with a variety of pictures. Here's a link to the set. Click on the "Gallery" button to see images of the coins (and click on the thumbnails to "blow-up" the images. Please note there are 2 pages of thumbnail pix). I hope you enjoy them. Also post your BC coins if you have some.
Battle Creek Collection
The toned Morgan dollar specialists believed the BC coins were NT and bid accordingly. However, due to the vibrancy of the coins, and the secrecy of the original dealer/buyer, there were a lot of comments about the coins being AT'ed. For the most part these comments were made by people who did not specialize in toned Morgans. These comments calmed down over time as the original dealer/buyer came forward in 2008. Also, over time many of the coins migrated from NGC plastic to PCGS plastic (sometimes with the BC designation kept, sometimes with the BC designation left behind).
Generally I keep my BC coins in the SDB, but I recently took some out to show to people at the Santa Clara show. They are as vibrant today as when I first laid eyes on them, and give me a warm fuzzy feeling to look at them. I had a little extra time today and updated my NGC Custom Set of Battle Creek coins with a variety of pictures. Here's a link to the set. Click on the "Gallery" button to see images of the coins (and click on the thumbnails to "blow-up" the images. Please note there are 2 pages of thumbnail pix). I hope you enjoy them. Also post your BC coins if you have some.
Battle Creek Collection
0
Comments
Thanks for posting this!
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
Larry L.
Mike
from the big moon money ones.....if your ever selling ????.............
<< <i>It is my understanding, although I could be wrong, that only the starred coins could be given the Battle Creek (BC) designation. I had the chance during 2005 - 2006 to see almost all of the BC starred coins. FWIW, IMO roughly 600 of the BC starred coins should NOT have gotten the star. These coins had, at best, minimal crescents of toning. Of the remaining ~ 800 coins I would say another ~ 100 were borderline stars. However, the remaining 700 or so went from quite pleasant at the lower end to truly breathtaking, mind meltingly beautiful toned Morgans for the top 100. >>
The TCCS website used to have a photo gallery of the coins in the original Superior auction. Does anyone know if those photos are still available anywhere?
1885 MS64 Star
1886 MS65 Star
100% Positive BST transactions
<< <i>and I thought you only liked Franklins.
That Skyman guy has some cool stuff
I love the way all these Battle Creek coins look. They are good for examples to use for a NT/AT debate.
<< <i>I must have missed the story about where and who these came from - can someone point me to it? I am not a Morgan person, but I am starting to pick up a toner or two... >>
Here you go!!
I am holding on two both of mine, which coincidentally I acquired from SkyMan.
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
Wow, 10,000 Morgans submitted at one time. 1,606 received the "*" designation.
Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
Regarding the whole NGC star thing with the BC coins. Of the 10,000 coins submitted, 1,359 were awarded the NGC star designation. It is my understanding, although I could be wrong, that only the starred coins could be given the Battle Creek (BC) designation. I had the chance during 2005 - 2006 to see almost all of the BC starred coins. FWIW, IMO roughly 600 of the BC starred coins should NOT have gotten the star. These coins had, at best, minimal crescents of toning. Of the remaining ~ 800 coins I would say another ~ 100 were borderline stars. However, the remaining 700 or so went from quite pleasant at the lower end to truly breathtaking, mind meltingly beautiful toned Morgans for the top 100.
I would also agree that the grading of the coins was mixed. I certainly have seen BC coins that I think are over graded and coins that are I think are under graded. However, I think pretty much all BC coins were within 1 point of their correct grades. I would bet that if you looked at them purely as a group of ~ 1,400 coins, the grading of the coins approximated the standard bell curve for distribution... e.g. there were a certain amount of coins that were abysmally under or over graded, while the vast majority centered around being correctly graded. Also, let's not fool ourselves, what people were paying for when they bought the coins was not the technical grade (there was, after all, only one MS67* BC coin, and IMO it didn't have the greatest eye appeal), but rather the toning. Only four out of the top 10 most expensive BC coins were MS66*'s and the other six were MS65*'s. FWIW the aforementioned MS67* only barely made it in the top 25 most expensive BC coins, coming in in the 23rd position. There were a good slug of coins in MS63* grades that went for multiple thousands of dollars.
Anyhow, please post your BC coins if you currently own any.
U.S. Type Set
<< <i>Thanks everyone for the kind comments... but where are pix of the other BC coins that you guys own? After all, this post is supposed to be a celebration of BC coins, so post away for coins you currently own. Obviously AuroraBorealis should be a major poster here, but he is currently on a job in the back woods of Canada. Hopefully he'll post to this thread when he gets back in town. Still there are plenty of others that currently own BC coins, so please post your pix.
Regarding the whole NGC star thing with the BC coins. Of the 10,000 coins submitted, 1,359 were awarded the NGC star designation. It is my understanding, although I could be wrong, that only the starred coins could be given the Battle Creek (BC) designation. I had the chance during 2005 - 2006 to see almost all of the BC starred coins. FWIW, IMO roughly 600 of the BC starred coins should NOT have gotten the star. These coins had, at best, minimal crescents of toning. Of the remaining ~ 800 coins I would say another ~ 100 borderline stars. However, the remaining 700 or so went from quite pleasant at the lower end to truly breathtaking, mind meltingly beautiful toned Morgans for the top 100.
I would also agree that the grading of the coins was mixed. I certainly have seen BC coins that I think are over graded and coins that are I think are under graded. However, I think pretty much all BC coins were within 1 point of their correct grades. I would bet that if you looked at them purely as a group of ~ 1,400 coins, the grading of the coins approximated the standard bell curve for distribution... e.g. there were a certain amount of coins that were abysmally under or over graded, while the vast majority centered around being correctly graded. Also, let's not fool ourselves, what people were paying for when they bought the coins was not the technical grade (there was, after all, only one MS67* BC coin, and IMO it didn't have the greatest eye appeal), but rather the toning. Only four out of the top 10 most expensive BC coins were MS66*'s and the other six were MS65*'s. FWIW the aforementioned MS67* only barely made it in the top 25 most expensive BC coins, coming in in the 23rd position. There were a good slug of coins in MS63* grades that went for multiple thousands of dollars.
Anyhow, please post your BC coins if you currently own any. >>
Here`s one SkyMan inadvertently named awhile back and both me and my wife liked the name so it is
Miss Sunburn
Most of the Battle Creeks were 1886 and 1887 however here`s a couple other dates that were in the Battle Creeks as well...
Green Field Sunrise
Campfire
Here is the only graded MS67* and the highest graded Battle Creek (at that time) in the original auction that SkyMan spoke of...
Here are a couple of the top Battle Creeks from the auction both MS66*... Both coins were acquired from my good friend the late Mike DeFalco who was a major player at the original Battle Creek auctions... One is my Signature coin and Avatar and the other is the record setter as was the highest price paid at that time for a common date Morgan at a major auction...
Aurora Borealis
Record Setter
Even though this one was originally a MS63* and sometime before i acquired it was upgraded by the owner at that time to a MS64* mainly because of a gash on the chin it is my favorite of any of the Battle Creeks as far as color... It is really something to gaze upon... By the way Mike also acquired this beauty for me and since it didn`t have a name i asked him to name it for me, which he did...
Psychedelic Pie
Finally here`s a few more of my Battle Creeks to wind it up SkyMan and thank you for the thread so i could share pics of these amazing Morgans with the board...
AB
10-4,
My Instagram picturesErik
My registry sets
I certainly bid on various of the coins that you currently own AB. I'm glad they're in good hands.
U.S. Type Set
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
From what I've seen recently it is absolutely important for owners of toned coins to store their coins properly in a dry place with stable temperature control. Too often we are shown slabbed toners that have evidence of beautiful colors and attractive rainbow patterns that have turned dark, past the point of recovery and worth only a fraction of the price originally paid. I can easily tell if a toner used to be attractive but was ruined due to improper storage and it happens too often.
In current times it seems that many of the Battle Creek toners have been ruined due to improper storage. To see a Battle Creek coin today that looks the same as it did during the original auctions (especially those ones that had the neon pink and red colors and brought moon money) is a relief because many don't look the same today as they did back then.
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
<< <i>The company and dealer I normally share a table with at larger shows has a reputation for stocking high quality, high end toned coins. As a result we get lots of people walking up with toned coins wanting to sell or wanting our opinions for their coins.
From what I've seen recently it is absolutely important for owners of toned coins to store their coins properly in a dry place with stable temperature control. Too often we are shown slabbed toners that have evidence of beautiful colors and attractive rainbow patterns that have turned dark, past the point of recovery and worth only a fraction of the price originally paid. I can easily tell if a toner used to be attractive but was ruined due to improper storage and it happens too often.
In current times it seems that many of the Battle Creek toners have been ruined due to improper storage. To see a Battle Creek coin today that looks the same as it did during the original auctions (especially those ones that had the neon pink and red colors and brought moon money) is a relief because many don't look the same today as they did back then. >>
So RYK's perception that his one BC toner was IIRC getting darker, is indeed real and not just his eyes playing tricks on him?
So, they were stable and beautiful for 100 years in the bag that caused the toning, but once slabbed in an airtight holder, they started to turn due to "improper storage"?
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>In current times it seems that many of the Battle Creek toners have been ruined due to improper storage. To see a Battle Creek coin today that looks the same as it did during the original auctions (especially those ones that had the neon pink and red colors and brought moon money) is a relief because many don't look the same today as they did back then.
So, they were stable and beautiful for 100 years in the bag that caused the toning, but once slabbed in an airtight holder, they started to turn due to "improper storage"? >>
All of mine look the same today as when I bought them ~ 7 years ago.
U.S. Type Set
<< <i>In current times it seems that many of the Battle Creek toners have been ruined due to improper storage. To see a Battle Creek coin today that looks the same as it did during the original auctions (especially those ones that had the neon pink and red colors and brought moon money) is a relief because many don't look the same today as they did back then.
So, they were stable and beautiful for 100 years in the bag that caused the toning, but once slabbed in an airtight holder, they started to turn due to "improper storage"? >>
PCGS and NGC holders are not airtight.
Well, just Love coins, period.
Again here is the link of an article that was posted earlier... For those that maybe interested
News Article
There are a few of my Battle Creeks that are pictured in that article... Here they are with the last one now in a PCGS holder without the designation anymore... That was done prior to me owning it and someday i may pursue having the designation put back onto a new holder...
AB
Blazing Forest
Satin Checkerboard
Textile Plum
Fifth Dimension
Larry L.