Petition To PSA to start grading Star Basketball

eagles33 · August 15, 2012 5:45AM

There are a bunch of threads with good info on start cards. I was going to bump an old thread but thought it would be easier to just start a new one. I took the below info from one of the threads. I think many believe that PSA won't grade star cards because they were reproduced using the original plates. From what I've read only the sets mentioned below were printed in the 90s and issued as late 80s cards. I would love to see PSA slab the base sets from 83-85. Those sets contain the first cards of many HOFers and NBA top 50 players. I don't own a ton of these and still haven't gotten the 84 jordan.. So my intentions are not to generate demand in the set for profit. I just think that these sets are important basketball sets and its irresponsible of PSA to dismiss them. I don't know how often they revisit grading these... But was wondering if anyone thought it would be a good idea to petition PSA to do some research and start authentication these cards.

<< hey goodriddance189,

"In conducting the seizure on July 9, the U.S. Marshals recovered more than 125,000 Star basketball trading cards, some in uncut sheets. "

"The Star basketball trading cards alleged to be counterfeit include the following sets: 1985 Miller All-Star Set, 1985 Chicago Bulls Arena Set, 1986 Chicago Bulls Arena Set, 1986 Crunch 'n' Munch Set and 1991 Michael Jordan Promotional Sets. In addition, Star International, Inc. is alleged to have reproduced cards purporting to be the legitimate 1991 Chicago Bulls 25th Anniversary Equal Set. The NBA cautions collectors to be careful and aware of counterfeit products when making purchases."

article an scd grading them
http://smsportscards.american-data.net/dimple/infopresstest.html >>

mccardguy1 · August 15, 2012 6:07AM

This will not happen. They apparently dont feel they can authenticate these cards with great certainty so they just wont do it. Seems to me there is too much liability if they get it wrong. I got all my Star cards graded by Beckett and sold them off right away.

cubfan89 · August 15, 2012 6:10AM

I was talking to a dealer at the sun times show who delt specifically with the Star cards. That is literally all he sold. I asked him why PSA refused to deal with these & he basically said there is no good reason.
He said it is very easy to tell the difference & PSA should start accepting them

eagles33 · August 15, 2012 6:39AM

<< This will not happen. They apparently dont feel they can authenticate these cards with great certainty so they just wont do it. Seems to me there is too much liability if they get it wrong. I got all my Star cards graded by Beckett and sold them off right away. >>

I think that is pretty weak position by PSA. There are prob just as many fake 86 fleer jordans as there are 84 Star. They are an authentication company.. Isn't it their job to decipher the difference between real and fake valuable cards? If the original printing plates were used to reproduce the base sets.. Then fine I guess I can see how it would be too difficult to tell the real from the fakes.. But its my understanding that is not the case. What makes the fake star cards any different from the countless number of counterfeit cards out there

vladguerrero · August 15, 2012 11:12AM

It ain't rocket science.

Planemonkey · August 15, 2012 11:19AM

Maybe were asking the wrong Joe maybe MR. Guerci can weigh in on this.

gemint · August 15, 2012 11:26AM

I'm not a basketball card collector but I've heard the story about why PSA won't grade them when a dealer I used to partner at shows was selling the Star Jordan's. The owner of the Star company used the original printing plates to produce a significant quantity of the sets years after they were originally issued. Since the original equipment was used, there's no way to distinguish between the originals and the copies.

TheCARDKid · August 15, 2012 11:32AM

I use to love Star cards in the early 90's.

I had the 86 Ewing bag, 85 Olajuwon, 84 Bird (gorgeous card), 86 Barkley, the 86 Magic is gorgeous. They seemed to have held their value pretty well. Some auctions for common bags lately have been $20-25 a piece.

-I'm most suspicious about the Best of the Best set, Best of the New and some of those 85 and 86 Jordans. I remember when the Best of the Best set (blue) was like $1,500, on fire. This was when the Jordan XRC was $4,000 or $3,500. When a set declines 80% like that, you wonder about the production levels.

The Best of the New Jordan seems to be almost like a common. There were other cards on that sheet, it seems very suspect.

-There are other 84 sets I wonder about. I remember on ebay years ago, I'd see the same sets week after week. If there's only 3,000 sets made, or 5,000, why are they on week after week? The 84 Lakers set, I don't know. Some of them got pretty low, like the subsets.

It's a shame what happened to the cards, they should be much higher.

Planemonkey · August 15, 2012 11:43AM

So your saying they are the same cards . Did he go to the trouble of replicating the exact team bags? With all the equipment he had surely he would had the baggie machine as well. Maybe the numbers were inflated from the start not like they numbered them. Then again no dealers from that era would hoard cards and pretend they are rare.

vladguerrero · August 15, 2012 12:08PM

<< I'm not a basketball card collector but I've heard the story about why PSA won't grade them when a dealer I used to partner at shows was selling the Star Jordan's. The owner of the Star company used the original printing plates to produce a significant quantity of the sets years after they were originally issued. Since the original equipment was used, there's no way to distinguish between the originals and the copies. >>

that's not accurate

BIGBEN7 · August 15, 2012 12:09PM

I also hope PSA would grade those cards. Hopefully Joe Orlando will respond to this thread.

Dpeck100 · August 15, 2012 12:22PM

Real or fake what do you guys think?

swartz1 · August 15, 2012 12:22PM

<< 

<< I'm not a basketball card collector but I've heard the story about why PSA won't grade them when a dealer I used to partner at shows was selling the Star Jordan's. The owner of the Star company used the original printing plates to produce a significant quantity of the sets years after they were originally issued. Since the original equipment was used, there's no way to distinguish between the originals and the copies. >>

that's not accurate >>

care to share?

eagles33 · August 15, 2012 12:31PM

<< I'm not a basketball card collector but I've heard the story about why PSA won't grade them when a dealer I used to partner at shows was selling the Star Jordan's. The owner of the Star company used the original printing plates to produce a significant quantity of the sets years after they were originally issued. Since the original equipment was used, there's no way to distinguish between the originals and the copies. >>

I don't think this is true. I believe this only happened with sets mentioned in the first post. So don't grade the crunch n munch ect... Sets. Just stick to the base sets. 83-8d is loaded with HOF rookies.. Its shame they all get thrown into the 86 fleer when licensed cards were produced in their actual rookie years

stown · August 15, 2012 12:33PM

Lee is a good source for Star cards. I'd post some of his comments but the search option isn't working (at least not for me).

vladguerrero · August 15, 2012 12:45PM

Fake DPeck

shagrotn77 · August 15, 2012 12:46PM

Pretty sure that Jordan is fake.

swartz1 · August 15, 2012 12:49PM

just words...

I'll bite...

real

aro13 · August 15, 2012 1:15PM

I used to hope PSA would start grading them, but I have had many of mine graded by Beckett and for the most part been happy with the results and service.

hookem · August 15, 2012 2:05PM

I agree they should start authenticating and grading them since that is largely why many of us pay for PSA cards. On most of the PSA vintage cards that I buy, the premium that I am paying for is knowing that it is an authentic and unaltered card. The secondary factor I pay the premium for is the actual grade. I formulate my opinion of the grade by looking at the card not reading the label. I depend on PSA to confirm that the card is authentic and unaltered.

hookem · August 15, 2012 2:15PM

One other thing that I would like to know more about is the history of PSA grading the Star rookies and then stopping. It's not very often you see them for sale but they do exist.

galaxy27 · August 15, 2012 2:31PM

I took a decade-long hiatus from the hobby around the turn of the century, so hopefully someone in the know can fill in the gaps with regards to the PSA/Star timeline. When exactly did PSA but the kibosh on grading these cards? I remember picking up a PSA 10 Jordan (an '86 Best of the Best or Best of the New/Old, can't recall which) in the late 90's off of the bay...

gemint · August 15, 2012 4:49PM

<< 

<< I'm not a basketball card collector but I've heard the story about why PSA won't grade them when a dealer I used to partner at shows was selling the Star Jordan's. The owner of the Star company used the original printing plates to produce a significant quantity of the sets years after they were originally issued. Since the original equipment was used, there's no way to distinguish between the originals and the copies. >>

I don't think this is true. I believe this only happened with sets mentioned in the first post. So don't grade the crunch n munch ect... Sets. Just stick to the base sets. 83-8d is loaded with HOF rookies.. Its shame they all get thrown into the 86 fleer when licensed cards were produced in their actual rookie years >>

Okay maybe I'm wrong but that's the story PSA gave (Rocci era) to him when he was trying to get the Star Jordan rookies graded. Either they told him the wrong thing or I'm not recalling correctly. It has been over 10 years since this occurred. If they are certain the owner of the company didn't produce more sets then they should grade them. However, how can you trust him if he already reproduced other sets? I really could have sworn there were concerns that the 84-85 Jordan was reproduced as well.

Dpeck100 · August 15, 2012 9:38PM

It is a reprint I got off EBAY for $8 a few years ago. Looks pretty good for a reprint though.

hookem · August 16, 2012 12:13AM

<< It is a reprint I got off EBAY for $8 a few years ago. Looks pretty good for a reprint though. >>

One of the key give aways on the reprints is the white dude playing defense behind MJ. If you look closely at his arm & hand, you can see how his fingers are cropped off at the nuckles. In the originals, you can clearly see all his fingers. I think the fingers/knuckles are also a bit blurry on the reprints.

hookem · August 16, 2012 12:16AM

Use the zoom feature on this PSA 8 MJ to check out the finger comparison I was talking about above: MJ PSA 8 on eBay

eagles33 · August 16, 2012 12:32AM

The jordan looks hand cut to me. Is it just the scan or is there a white border around the card? Also I think the 85 and Star logo should be blurry. The centering doesn't really fall in line with any of the authentic jordans I've seen.

ClockworkAngel · August 16, 2012 12:53AM

Star Basketball was the final straw that ultimately made me quit the hobby for 10 years. In the early 90's I became obsessed with collecting the unopened team set bags only...84-86. I was fascinated by the different print runs. I just remember the 83-4 Mavericks team bag had some insanely low print run and as a result was worth thousands.

Anyway, I bought an 85-86 Knicks (Ewing RC) and 84-85 Rockets bag (olajuwan) and 83-84 Trailblazers (Drexler) for like 2 grand, and that was most of my savings at that time. I brought them to a large card show to kind of show off and maybe sell. I was told that they were fake or at least resealed by 2 dealers in the know This was well after the time I bought them and the dealer had gone out of business and last I heard was a cocaine addict. That was when I quit the hobby as it was becoming too corrupt in my mind

But I digress...I'd love to hear from PSA on this. Can someone send an E-mail to Joe Orlando or anyone else to get an explanation as to why they don't grade? I also think it would be really cool if they graded the unopened bags

BPorter26 · August 16, 2012 12:55AM

<< don't think this is true. I believe this only happened with sets mentioned in the first post. So don't grade the crunch n munch ect... Sets. Just stick to the base sets. 83-8d is loaded with HOF rookies.. Its shame they all get thrown into the 86 fleer when licensed cards were produced in their actual rookie years >>

Why do you think the sub sets are not a good value Crunch N Much, Gatorade, Miller Lite, ETC....? I'm curious because I'm in the market for either a Gatorade or Lite Beer Jordan, but I don't want to throw my money way either.

Dpeck100 · August 16, 2012 1:03AM

Eagles the card is actually sharp. I noticed the scan did not come out very good. I do not have a really good scanner and should upgrade.

I have no prior experience of comparing it to a real one and I would hope that an expert could esily tell this one was fake.

The problem is these sell all of the time for more then $8 and the seller says they are not sure and it sells for hundreds.

PSA is a for profit company and I would think they have looked at the potential revenue vs. the risk and said they are just no interested.

Another scary element to this situation is someone could potentially get one signed and then put it in a blue flip and it would sell for huge money.

kerryville · August 16, 2012 1:11AM

Why would the best grading company in the world for cards lower there standards to grade Star basketball cards? Star was a questionable card company who produced great cards that are iconic, but are questionable when and how many were made. Good for PSA admitting there mistake in grading them and sticking with not grading them in the future. Companies looking to just make money and to he!! with standards grade them and happily take your money. Good for you PSA.

eagles33 · August 16, 2012 1:19AM

<< 

<< don't think this is true. I believe this only happened with sets mentioned in the first post. So don't grade the crunch n munch ect... Sets. Just stick to the base sets. 83-8d is loaded with HOF rookies.. Its shame they all get thrown into the 86 fleer when licensed cards were produced in their actual rookie years >>

Why do you think the sub sets are not a good value Crunch N Much, Gatorade, Miller Lite, ETC....? I'm curious because I'm in the market for either a Gatorade or Lite Beer Jordan, but I don't want to throw my money way either. >>

In an old thread there was a quote from an article saying that these sets were the ones that were printed after the date it says on the cards. I think this is what people are referring to when they say original printing plates were used to reproduce them. I put the quote in the first post because I thought it was good info.. All of my information is just from old threads and what I've seen on ebay.. I'm by no means an expert. Just my opinion based on what I've read.. Which could be wrong. Personally I have good luck buying the base cards raw and subbing them at BGS. I haven't bought a jordan yet.. but considering the investment.. I wouldn't risk buying it raw.

Petition To PSA to start grading Star Basketball

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