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Proof the USMint does not ship FIFO
Bochiman
Posts: 25,556 ✭✭✭✭✭
So, for the 2 coin 75th annv SAE set, I placed 2 orders.
First order was 2 sets. Second order was 1 set.
3 minutes apart, but 596 order numbers apart (order for anything, not necessarily these sets).
They both went "in stock and reserved" at the same time, but the LATER order is already on its way. The earlier order STILL HAS NOT been sent out.
Wish I had contact info for someone at the mint on this as, while I am not in a hurry on this, I find it very poor in their process that they weren't handled FIFO....and neither order is large nor excessive.
It's one then when it's different people as the mint can try to find excuses like "well, the card used had to be re-run", etc etc etc.....in this case, same everything, in stock and reserved together....but the later one goes out prior to the earlier one. They should fire their contractors if this isn't at their own (USMint's) direction....and if it is at their direction, they need to be retrained.
First order was 2 sets. Second order was 1 set.
3 minutes apart, but 596 order numbers apart (order for anything, not necessarily these sets).
They both went "in stock and reserved" at the same time, but the LATER order is already on its way. The earlier order STILL HAS NOT been sent out.
Wish I had contact info for someone at the mint on this as, while I am not in a hurry on this, I find it very poor in their process that they weren't handled FIFO....and neither order is large nor excessive.
It's one then when it's different people as the mint can try to find excuses like "well, the card used had to be re-run", etc etc etc.....in this case, same everything, in stock and reserved together....but the later one goes out prior to the earlier one. They should fire their contractors if this isn't at their own (USMint's) direction....and if it is at their direction, they need to be retrained.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
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“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
<< <i>
They both went "in stock and reserved" at the same time, but the LATER order is already on its way. The earlier order STILL HAS NOT been sent out.
>>
There is the possibility that you're giving their tracking system (both people and program) too much credit.
There have been many times when status on the website and the followup email happened after I had the product received, opened, cataloged, and put away.
Could be the same thing here.
<< <i>Really makes me wonder about the entire concept of First Strikes. >>
Maybe we need FSEDS FSLDS!!
<< <i>Really makes me wonder about the entire concept of First Strikes. >>
Was there ever a question?
<< <i>Can you provide a link to the us mint where they state coins are shipped "first in, first out" please? >>
No, can you?
I didn't say they "HAD TO", but it does make the most sense. What I said is there is now, for me, "PROOF the USMint does not ship FIFO".
I also stated that I find it very "poor in their process" that they weren't handled FIFO. Nowhere did I say they state they have to ship that way.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>
<< <i>
They both went "in stock and reserved" at the same time, but the LATER order is already on its way. The earlier order STILL HAS NOT been sent out.
>>
There is the possibility that you're giving their tracking system (both people and program) too much credit.
There have been many times when status on the website and the followup email happened after I had the product received, opened, cataloged, and put away.
Could be the same thing here. >>
You could be correct that I am giving them/their system too much credit. The reason I posted about it this time is just because they were both small orders, minutes apart, and not on something that crashed the website (like the 2006 ANNV sets, etc, have done). So, if they both did ship "together", then the system they have is a huge problem, which I think many of us already know.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>
<< <i>Can you provide a link to the us mint where they state coins are shipped "first in, first out" please? >>
No, can you? >>
I can.
From here:
The United States Mint's order management system processes all orders on a first-in, first-served basis.
You're welcome.
"The US Mint indicates that shipping for the 2012 San Francisco Silver Eagle Set will begin “on or about July 27, 2012″ with fulfillment taking place on a first in, first served basis. A wide window of July 27 to mid-October 2012 is provided as a time frame for fulfillment of all orders."
I am almost sure I saw something similar attributed to a mint official. I will keep looking.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
1. Order stuff.
2. Get on with your life.
3. Stuff shows up.
Stop looking up shipment tracking online. That's all there is to it.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Can you provide a link to the us mint where they state coins are shipped "first in, first out" please? >>
No, can you? >>
I can.
From here:
The United States Mint's order management system processes all orders on a first-in, first-served basis.
You're welcome.
Gracias, Senor Cabeza de Tater
I will wait until the one that has shipped shows up at my box. At that point, I either have both, or I have one, and then I will contact the mint (if only the later ordered one shows up first).
Ps....the only reason I went to look it up was that I got the email for "order has shipped" and just got the 1 email....was wondering if they had flagged any issue with the other order (nope).
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Can you provide a link to the us mint where they state coins are shipped "first in, first out" please? >>
No, can you? >>
I can.
From here:
The United States Mint's order management system processes all orders on a first-in, first-served basis.
You're welcome.
Thanks mrpotatoheadd. I was pretty sure that the mint had that somewhere but looking on the site for a few minutes I couldn't find it. I thought the OP had found it, that's why I asked.
I would probably be the last person to defend the mint, but "The United States Mint's order management system processes all orders on a first-in, first-served basis." says process, if there are different modes of delivery then there would have to be consideration for that. tues is the expedited delivery deadline if shipped on friday
(l8-)>>
<< <i>I believe that the mint uses two primary shipping contractors, the FEDEX/USPS contract for non expedited deliveries, and UPS 2nd day for expedited deliveries. So far it seems to me that the FEDEX/USPS pick-ups have posted, and the UPS (2 or more units) have not. There have been times in the past when I received an email ship notice, after I received the item in hand. If they shipped the expedited orders on fri or sat, they won't show up till tues. I will give them the benefit of the doubt till then.
I would probably be the last person to defend the mint, but "The United States Mint's order management system processes all orders on a first-in, first-served basis." says process, if there are different modes of delivery then there would have to be consideration for that. tues is the expedited delivery deadline if shipped on friday >>
Excellent point, Edgar. Like I said, I will wait until delivery of whichever unit is first, and then, if not FIFO, I will contact the USMint.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
there are "pick lists" for different employees.
some employees are better than others
and/or
maybe they are getting out some of the slow train, single ones just before the fast ship ones so those people on the slow train don't make a million calls complaining "my friend got theirs several days ago.... where is mine?"
before complaining wait and see how this unfolds. If, some time late next week, the early fast ship orders are not going out, then I'd start complaining.
<< <i>Although I did not order any of the current Eagle sets, I have placed multiple orders for items in the past and I have had the first order ship after subsequent orders on several occasions. I first noticed this with the release of the 2006 20th Anniversary Sets. I've never been able to determine why this occurs, but it does. >>
they've gotten a lot closer to FIFO recently.
I'm going to wait and see on this issue.
Meanwhile, my "info has been sent" to FedEx but not the box.
does FedEx have the box for anyone here?
<< <i>Really makes me wonder about the entire concept of First Strikes. >>
You mean up until now, you didn't wonder about the concept at all?
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
<< <i>does FedEx have the box for anyone here? >>
Mine shows it arrived at Fedex Indianapolis 7/27 @ 5:55 pm and left that facility later @ 11:31 pm. Estimated delivery 8/16.
<< <i>
<< <i>Really makes me wonder about the entire concept of First Strikes. >>
You mean up until now, you didn't wonder about the concept at all? >>
I've always posted about my concern over the First Strike concept currently in effect. I was simply stirring the pot to see if others will come to the same logical conclusion.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
Box of 20
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>Really makes me wonder about the entire concept of First Strikes. >>
Don't you really mean "First Strike" labels? Perhaps the description should be changed to "First Certified" labels.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
I alerted my cc company I would be traveling overseas so when a charge came through from Washington, D.C. it was denied.
Unless i can get the 'HOLD' on my order removed moday it looks like I'll be missing another RP at mint issue pricing.
The good news is I'll have more dough to spend on coins this month.
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
<< <i>possibilities:
there are "pick lists" for different employees.
some employees are better than others
and/or
maybe they are getting out some of the slow train, single ones just before the fast ship ones so those people on the slow train don't make a million calls complaining "my friend got theirs several days ago.... where is mine?"
before complaining wait and see how this unfolds. If, some time late next week, the early fast ship orders are not going out, then I'd start complaining. >>
Sorry, but that is unacceptable as that is not FIFO either. If they stated, "we will do what we can to make sure they all arrive around the same time", then that would work, but FIFO doesn't mean that....it means "FIRST IN, FIRST OUT", as almost everyone knows. Not "EXPEDITED WILL BE PROCESSED AFTER NON-EXPEDITED"
Same thing goes for employees and picking orders to ship. Not an acceptable answer.
In the meantime, I will wait and see when the sets arrive...if it is just that their system sucks for updating the webpage, then they should be addressing that problem with the new system they are supposed to be getting (I believe that was being outsourced to a firm from another country?). Still not a great reason for the issue, but we shall see.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>
<< <i>Really makes me wonder about the entire concept of First Strikes. >>
Don't you really mean "First Strike" labels? Perhaps the description should be changed to "First Certified" labels. >>
"First Certified" - now that is a label I could accept as being accurate.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
You stated that your ordered were, "3 minutes apart, but 596 order numbers apart (order for anything, not necessarily these sets)."
With your thought process, there is one person packing up the items, updating the computer, shipping the package, updating the item in the system... then going to the next item.
This is how you see the scenario in your explanation. Now, the reality of the situation.
A company can receive hundreds of orders in a matter of minutes...
These orders go into a data base... They hire 10, 20, 50 even hundreds of people to package these items... They most likely do them in order (I can't see any other reason why they would do them out of order).
So, packager number 1 picks up an order and he/she assumes control of that order number which removes it from the pool. This particular order had 10 misc items on it. As they are tracking down these items, properly packaging them, padding the items, closing the package (tape) then updating the label and putting it into the "ready to be shipped" pile, packager number 2 took the next order... This next order happens to be your order of 1 coin. This order is done a lot quicker... Packager number 2 moves onto the next order... this order has 1 coin... what do you know, packager number two has 2 packages complete before packager number 1 completes the first...
So, let's assume there are only 50 packagers. Each packager person packages 5 packages per hour (Slow I know, but after all, they do work for the government). In your reasoning, each package should be put together, then put in a row in order of how they were ordered, to be processed for delivery... This is unrealistic.
Realistically, they are put onto a conveyer belt and coded as they are packaged. Then they are put into a bin randomly... They are then picked up by the shipper and coded-in randomly. When the shipper arrives, there are 20-30 bins waiting to be coded in for delivery (identifying that they have been picked up and are out for shipping). So, your first package is in bin 14 and your second package is in bin 15. This truck happens to be able to hold only 14 bins... your second package waits until the next truck arrives on the follow day...
As you can see, there are many opportunities where the order is processed out of order... but the initial step of processing them FIFO is maintained.
It's amazing how people automatically go to the worst case scenario rather than the benefit of doubt. There is a balance of this thought process, I know, but when assuming that they are wrong by looking at two only two of 50 or so variables is just unreasonable.
Take it for what it's worth, but I'm sure someone will find a flaw in my thought process as well.
Ray
<< <i>These orders go into a data base... They hire 10, 20, 50 even hundreds of people to package these items... They most likely do them in order (I can't see any other reason why they would do them out of order).
So, packager number 1 picks up an order... >>
It's probably even more complicated than this. If I had to guess, I'd expect single set orders would be packed by a different group of people than multi set orders as packing the same thing over and over is a different process than locating several possibly different items to pack together. For single items, you only need one stack of product and one stack of shipping supplies while multi item orders may require any number of combinatins of product and different packaging supplies.
I wouldn't be at all surprised to hear that an order for a single item placed shortly after an order for a group of items ended up being shipped first.
edited for clarity...
<< <i>In the meantime, I will wait and see when the sets arrive...if it is just that their system sucks for updating the webpage, then they should be addressing that problem with the new system they are supposed to be getting (I believe that was being outsourced to a firm from another country?). Still not a great reason for the issue, but we shall see. >>
The new system was bid out to a British firm. But the mint put a hold on the update as reported July 13th in a Numismatic News article because of how well their calculated, conscious, deliberately manipulative two coin "S" ASE set went using the 30 day ordering period and mint to demand ruse.
And they have hired yet another firm. "But not wanting to stand still, the Mint has contracted a third-party consultant to advise what actions it can take now to reduce the risk of the current system, Peterson said." A consultant to advise about the consultants. Who's brother in law needed a fat contract?
My 7/7 (12:14P) order of 5 lost the box Friday.....should ship today
..
Orders with "more than 1 set" have been "picked" but not shipped yet. The USM says if they were "picked" for shipping, shipping should occur within a few days.
All my orders for 1 set each were shipped 7/27.
<< <i>Can you provide a link to the us mint where they state coins are shipped "first in, first out" please? >>
First-in, First-served Order Processing and Fulfillment Procedures
Answer ID
205
What are the United States Mint's standard processing and fulfillment procedures?
The United States Mint's order management system processes all orders on a first-in, first-served basis. First-in, first-served means that from the time a customer receives an order confirmation number, his or her order is processed in the sequence it was received. Inventory is immediately reserved for that customer and the customer's order begins the order management and fulfillment process.
https://answers.usmint.gov/cgi-bin/usmint.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=205
1 unit shipped on 07/29/2012
Order Date: 06/07/2012 at 08:58 PM
Order Status: Your order request has been shipped.
<< <i>So, for the 2 coin 75th annv SAE set, I placed 2 orders.
First order was 2 sets. Second order was 1 set.
3 minutes apart, but 596 order numbers apart (order for anything, not necessarily these sets).
They both went "in stock and reserved" at the same time, but the LATER order is already on its way. The earlier order STILL HAS NOT been sent out.
Wish I had contact info for someone at the mint on this as, while I am not in a hurry on this, I find it very poor in their process that they weren't handled FIFO....and neither order is large nor excessive.
It's one then when it's different people as the mint can try to find excuses like "well, the card used had to be re-run", etc etc etc.....in this case, same everything, in stock and reserved together....but the later one goes out prior to the earlier one. They should fire their contractors if this isn't at their own (USMint's) direction....and if it is at their direction, they need to be retrained. >>
Catalog Coin Orders
Customer Service: To place an order, check the status of an existing
order or inquire about a shipment or lost order.
1-800-USA-MINT
(1-800-872-6468)
2012 AE SILVER 2-COIN SET 2 $149.95 $299.90 2 units shipped on 07/30/2012
(l8-)>>
<< <i>multi-sets have shipped
2012 AE SILVER 2-COIN SET 2 $149.95 $299.90 2 units shipped on 07/30/2012 >>
Expedited shipping starts at $300...none of those have shipped.
<< <i>
<< <i>multi-sets have shipped
2012 AE SILVER 2-COIN SET 2 $149.95 $299.90 2 units shipped on 07/30/2012 >>
Expedited shipping starts at $300...none of those have shipped.
My 5 set order was marked as shipped a couple of hours ago....
I should add that all of the $299.95 25th Annie individual set orders all got expedited shipping and were just under $300...I would think $299.90 would be "just under"
"First Strike" is a grading company thing. Always sounded like non-sense to me. Add $18 for the first strike labels..... pure profit.
In God We Trust.... all others pay in Gold and Silver!
<< <i>"First Strike" is a grading company thing. Always sound like non-sense to me. Add $18 for the first strike labels..... pure profit. >>
I like the look of the label. Some people are willing to pay extra for a nicer looking shirt, prettier coffee pot, better looking piece of art, etc. even if the production cost is the same as the "plain/generic" version. Humans are kinda quirky like that.
<< <i>I have no issue with the FS thing....what I can't fathom is why it is priced higher than the actual work of grading/slabbing the coin....zero effort or time is needed to add two words to a label...the cost should be more appropriate to the work done (zero)... >>
That is a very good question BigA. True, it is PCGS prerogative to charge what ever they like. If customers think its too much they won't buy. Ever hear "charging as much as the market will bare"? They don't have to justify it but it would be interesting to hear the explanation. Why does it costs less for a trained professional to study a coin, do all the tracking and paperwork, pass it on for verification to another professional who also studies the coin and confirms or disputes the grade with more tracking and paperwork. Seems training and experience intensive requiring a degree of professionalism if any credibility is to be maintained = stress.
What does it take to confirm First Strike status? Checking the data base for eligibility? Is it in a original sealed mint shipping box with the correct post marks? Or if not is it within the 30 day window? Seems like a less intensive, still professional, less time consuming task = less stress.
So why 50% more than the stressful professional double checked training and experience intensive grading process? Inquiring minds would like to know.
(l8-)>>
Product Name Quantity Price
(each) Total Item Status Cancel
AMERICAN EAGLE SILVER UNCIRCULATED SET 5 $0.01 $0.05 5 units backordered. Expected to ship on 08/14/2012.
(Sets already shipped)
AND:
Product Name Quantity Price
(each) Total Item Status Cancel
AMERICAN EAGLE SILVER UNCIRCULATED SET 2 $0.01 $0.02 2 units backordered. Expected to ship on 08/14/2012.
Cancel box gone/ CC hit/ in stock and reserved
What is with the 8/14 BS???
<< <i>Really makes me wonder about the entire concept of First Strikes. >>
.............................................................................................................................
That is a joke...............correct?
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
"A UPS shipping label has been created. Once the shipment arrives at our facility, the tracking status--including the scheduled delivery date--will be updated."
So, the guesses that singles were done first, then others started getting down with expedited shipping (and will still arrive first) looks like it may have been on the money.
Now, if they had just processed/shipped FIFO style, some of us would have already had our sets by now....
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment