I don't know that I've ever seen posts that indicate the poster really "despises" the hobby, but I've seen some that I think were meant to look that way in the interest of fanning the flames of a particular argument.
Here's a question in a similar vein however, based on some observations over the years... Why do people who despise dealers continue to patronize them?
<< <i>While I see quite a bit of opinions being challenged here it is usually objective and not motivated by immaturity. I think this is a great forum. Of the half dozen or so forums I visit, in my opinion there are others where closed mindedness expressed in the form of negativity is the norm if it involves something that the regulars are not actively involved in..... this is really ot one of them.
John >>
Good to see you back. I became a customer about a month ago. Great service and professionalism. I just hope the case of the missing 6 gold Buffalos has been solved in a positive way.
<< <i>Morning is always a great time for reflection. As I think about the OP, it reminds me of the view I've long held of those who are uninterested in moderns but who find modern coin posts irresistible. I always wondered why people who hate them post to threads about them. For many years, it was impossible to start a modern thread here without critics immediately joining to tell the collectors how silly they were. Similarly, modern collectors were roundly criticized by the elites in the hobby. A certain spelling-challenged dealer used to routinely criticize them in her blog. Jon Albanese offered the following regarding moderns: The grading services should either immediately cease slabbing modern and bullion coins, or issue strong black-box warning labels on all of this trash. It should read something like, "This slab is harmful to your financial health and should be purchased for amusement purposes only". However, PCGS supported the modern community through the creation of set registries, modern tier grading, etc.; a decision I believe expands the hobby and is in its' long-term best interest. PCGS support for moderns was a talking point against them among certain in the dealer community--evidence they were damaging the hobby. Ironically, the same principals of the 4th party service who criticized the modern community have now become familiar enough with them to start certifying Ikes. Go figure. They certainly seemed to despise one part of the hobby, yet frequently posted about them on this forum.
The same is true for those who foment angst regarding PCGS on this message board. PCGS critics (and the lackeys who carried their water) have often openly criticized all aspects of their service here, working to create as much angst regarding PCGS as possible in order to create demand for additional 4th party solutions. At one point, the level of energy dedicated to creating this angst was so great that critics and their alts (i.e. SageRed...how childish) seemed bent on destroying the PCGS message board, an important resource for the community. I support PCGS, as they support my collecting interests. I suppose the actors discussed in my commentary believe they are champions of the hobby, and are acting on those passions. I don't believe they despise the hobby. I collect 20th century coins, and post to the forum using my real name. I don't have an alt. I I am passionate about them, and believe I am a championing the hobby. I suppose each have our own truths and motivations for posting here. I doubt any post here out of malice or dislike of the hobby. The board will be what we make it. Threads meant to gossip about the motivations of other posters are themselves meant to foment angst. JMO >>
Well said. That dog will hunt.
K
PS Fuzzybest- Please Google A-N-A-L-O-G-Y . I apologize in advance for the first 4 letters of this word.
This is a dangerous hobby. It's easy to be duped, even among the most knowledgeable.
The reason? We get passionate. We get excited. We have to battle all of this to keep our brains in charge when we see an apparent astounding deal, a great discovery, a rare variety at a coin show, a long-desired piece...
To guard against all this, I think that our numbers have a reflexive, defensive cynicism.
I've always said that the cynic is a latent sucker (or, in other contexts, a latent idealist), and I admit to the charge!
Simply put, I think that people around here reflexively guard against their enthusiasm (based on inevitable newbie mistakes), so as not to over-react and do something ill-advised based on passion.
The controls and inhibition fostered by this forum and it's defensive pseudo-cynicism has probably served us well.
I think many of us ought to acknowledge this vulnerablity, and treasure one another's willingness to offer us a balance to our passion, however defensive, over-wrought, fear-induced and irrational that balance may actually be at times!
<< <i>Why do people who despise the hobby post on the forum?
I can't speak for anyone else, but I love the hobby and there are still plenty of things about it that I loathe. And I see no reason to limit my comments here to one side of the coin or the other. >>
"or the other" ???
It may not be too late to reverse yourself.
I'm obligated to note the rim is once again being neglected, and at your own peril.
At least it's not a Manichean battle between the light and the darkside. Tri-Lateral Commission?
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
I think a lot of the negativity is due to "sour grapes." The person who calls the MS67 BN Lincoln "cooked" is jealous, and they would be crowing about it had they made it themselves. These people seldom or never post their own coins for a reason- they don't have anything nice enough to show.
<< <i>This is a dangerous hobby. It's easy to be duped, even among the most knowledgeable.
The reason? We get passionate. We get excited. We have to battle all of this to keep our brains in charge when we see an apparent astounding deal, a great discovery, a rare variety at a coin show, a long-desired piece...
To guard against all this, I think that our numbers have a reflexive, defensive cynicism.
I've always said that the cynic is a latent sucker (or, in other contexts, a latent idealist), and I admit to the charge!
Simply put, I think that people around here reflexively guard against their enthusiasm (based on inevitable newbie mistakes), so as not to over-react and do something ill-advised based on passion.
The controls and inhibition fostered by this forum and it's defensive pseudo-cynicism has probably served us well.
I think many of us ought to acknowledge this vulnerablity, and treasure one another's willingness to offer us a balance to our passion, however defensive, over-wrought, fear-induced and irrational that balance may actually be at times! >>
You sound like Colonel Jessup.......well said!
I manage money. I earn money. I save money . I give away money. I collect money. I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
The other side to this is the fact that the forum is not just "coin enthusist". A lot of PM junkies hanging around. There are tons of threads about a mint release of a PM item that you have people posting how they are not coins and what the heck are you doing here etc. I think in the end its just the diversity of the group and the fact that some people have way too much time on their hands.
Currently working with nurmaler. Older transactions....circa 2011 BST transactions Gecko109, Segoja, lpinion, Agblox, oldgumballmachineswanted,pragmaticgoat, CharlieC, onlyroosies, timrutnat, ShinyThingsInPM under login lightcycler
David has it right. We get passionate. We get excited. Often, its political. I remember the OP getting wound up a few years ago about his perception that David Hall was "bullying" (his words) one of his dealer friends. I can only speculate regarding his motives, but he spent the next 6 months posting here and across the street about a forth party service that would redistribute the balance of power in the market. My recollection is that he was the first to break the news of a 4th party service here. It was a pretty negative time for PCGS shareholders. Threads such as this suggest renewed interest in promoting positive participation here. I view that as real growth and maturation.
edited to add the following: I owe Robert a retraction for one of my statements earlier in this thread. I earlier stated the following: "I remember the OP getting wound up a few years ago about his perception that David Hall was "bullying" (his words) one of his dealer friends." I looked through the archives and my email exchanges with you and do not see that those were your words. It was my assumption based on your posts here and on another board.
Developing theory is what we are meant to do as academic researchers and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
<< <i>David has it right. We get passionate. We get excited. Often, its political. I remember the OP getting wound up a few years ago about his perception that David Hall was "bullying" (his words) one of his dealer friends. I can only speculate regarding his motives, but he spent the next 6 months posting here and across the street about a forth party service that would redistribute the balance of power in the market. My recollection is that he was the first to break the news of a 4th party service here. It was a pretty negative time for PCGS shareholders. Threads such as this suggest renewed interest in promoting positive participation here. I view that as real growth and maturation. >>
It would be both an honor and a pleasure to be "bullyed" by David Hall, or Don Willis for that matter!
<< <i>David has it right. We get passionate. We get excited. Often, its political. I remember the OP getting wound up a few years ago about his perception that David Hall was "bullying" (his words) one of his dealer friends. I can only speculate regarding his motives, but he spent the next 6 months posting here and across the street about a forth party service that would redistribute the balance of power in the market. My recollection is that he was the first to break the news of a 4th party service here. It was a pretty negative time for PCGS shareholders. Threads such as this suggest renewed interest in promoting positive participation here. I view that as real growth and maturation. >>
It would be both an honor and a pleasure to be "bullyed" by David Hall, or Don Willis for that matter! >>
<< <i>David has it right. We get passionate. We get excited. Often, its political. I remember the OP getting wound up a few years ago about his perception that David Hall was "bullying" (his words) one of his dealer friends. I can only speculate regarding his motives, but he spent the next 6 months posting here and across the street about a forth party service that would redistribute the balance of power in the market. My recollection is that he was the first to break the news of a 4th party service here. It was a pretty negative time for PCGS shareholders. Threads such as this suggest renewed interest in promoting positive participation here. I view that as real growth and maturation. >>
Actually, Don, I have been as consistent a supporter of PCGS as there has been, as a customer and investor. I had one lapse after a serious of service gaffes several years ago left me disappointed. Overall, no corporate entity has had a greater and more positive impact on me as a collector than PCGS. Yes, I was early to the CAC party and got the word out, and have been happy with my experience with them, as well. (I do not remember being bullied by David Hall, and if my friends were, well, that's either their perception or problem.) I try to stay on the positive side of things. You should try it!
Let me add something positive to this thread before I give others the last word. One of the greatest things about being a modern collector is that I don't have to be aware of politically sensibilities.
Developing theory is what we are meant to do as academic researchers and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
<< <i>Let me add something positive to this thread before I give others the last word. One of the greatest things about being a modern collector is that I don't have to be aware of politically sensibilities. >>
One of the great things about being a coin collector is that I don't have to, either.
It reminds me of people who post "who cares" comments on fluffy news pieces or something else that doesn't particularly concern them. If it doesn't concern you and you don't care, why did you bother to post? Does it make you (royal "you") feel better or superior because you are showing people you don't care about things you think should be irrelevant?
<< <i>It reminds me of people who post "who cares" comments on fluffy news pieces or something else that doesn't particularly concern them. If it doesn't concern you and you don't care, why did you bother to post? Does it make you (royal "you") feel better or superior because you are showing people you don't care about things you think should be irrelevant? >>
I don't particularly care for people who only post to stir the pot either, but "I don't care" qualifies as an opinion just as much as a positive or negative response, I suppose. It's how others respond to that opinion that is usually the genesis of most of the difficulty.
On the other hand, who cares. This whole thread is irrelevant...
<< <i>It reminds me of people who post "who cares" comments on fluffy news pieces or something else that doesn't particularly concern them. If it doesn't concern you and you don't care, why did you bother to post? Does it make you (royal "you") feel better or superior because you are showing people you don't care about things you think should be irrelevant? >>
I don't particularly care for people who only post to stir the pot either, but "I don't care" qualifies as an opinion just as much as a positive or negative response, I suppose. It's how others respond to that opinion that is usually the genesis of most of the difficulty.
On the other hand, who cares. This whole thread is irrelevant...
It reminds me of people who post "who cares" comments
certainly not directly what you meant, but what good does it do if a member posts a thread asking for opinions and nothing negative is said?? surely there are ways to state opinions so they seem like compliments when they aren't(we like to call it "constructive criticism") bit i often wonder how some members make it through life with such thin skins.
i have had some time to think about the OP's intended question and i can't think of anyone here who really despises the Hobby. please PM who you think does.
When I began collecting, I started reading threads on this forum to quickly gain knowledge about coins. Although some people mystify me with their responses or parroted responses like,
with no original thoughts of their own, I still have learned so much and enjoyed the banter pro or con on several subjects. I just ignore what I can't control. This forum is just a microcosm
of who you might meet on the streets. Some you'll tip your hat to and some you'll just stare straight ahead as you pass them by.
<< <i>When I began collecting, I started reading threads on this forum to quickly gain knowledge about coins. Although some people mystify me with their responses or parroted responses like, with no original thoughts of their own, ... >>
I can't understand why this would mystify you. There's nothing mystifying with an "I agree with you" post.
Sometimes another's post says it so well and completely that there is nothing else to add but one's agreement.
<< <i> ... and some you'll just stare straight ahead as you pass them by. >>
No one loves the forums more than Longacre, and I, too, have wondered why people join just to post negative comments.
BTW, what's an album?
Always took candy from strangers Didn't wanna get me no trade Never want to be like papa Working for the boss every night and day --"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
Comments
<< <i>you should have been around during the forum heydays 7-8 years ago. >>
Things have certainly gotten more civil. Sometimes I miss the strongly opinionated flamethrower posts
However, even then, many of those posts were the result of a very strong interest in and concern for the hobby.
Now that the boards have toned down a bit, that energy has been channelled into some very worthwhile progress for the hobby.
Here's a question in a similar vein however, based on some observations over the years... Why do people who despise dealers continue to patronize them?
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>I don't know that I've ever seen posts that indicate the poster really "despises" the hobby >>
This is my thinking as well. I'm not sure who is being discussed. Fill me in
<< <i>While I see quite a bit of opinions being challenged here it is usually objective and not motivated by immaturity. I think this is a great forum. Of the half dozen or so forums I visit, in my opinion there are others where closed mindedness expressed in the form of negativity is the norm if it involves something that the regulars are not actively involved in..... this is really ot one of them.
John >>
Good to see you back. I became a customer about a month ago. Great service and professionalism. I just hope the case of the missing 6 gold Buffalos
has been solved in a positive way.
<< <i>Morning is always a great time for reflection. As I think about the OP, it reminds me of the view I've long held of those who are uninterested in moderns but who find modern coin posts irresistible. I always wondered why people who hate them post to threads about them. For many years, it was impossible to start a modern thread here without critics immediately joining to tell the collectors how silly they were. Similarly, modern collectors were roundly criticized by the elites in the hobby. A certain spelling-challenged dealer used to routinely criticize them in her blog. Jon Albanese offered the following regarding moderns: The grading services should either immediately cease slabbing modern and bullion coins, or issue strong black-box warning labels on all of this trash. It should read something like, "This slab is harmful to your financial health and should be purchased for amusement purposes only". However, PCGS supported the modern community through the creation of set registries, modern tier grading, etc.; a decision I believe expands the hobby and is in its' long-term best interest. PCGS support for moderns was a talking point against them among certain in the dealer community--evidence they were damaging the hobby. Ironically, the same principals of the 4th party service who criticized the modern community have now become familiar enough with them to start certifying Ikes. Go figure. They certainly seemed to despise one part of the hobby, yet frequently posted about them on this forum.
The same is true for those who foment angst regarding PCGS on this message board. PCGS critics (and the lackeys who carried their water) have often openly criticized all aspects of their service here, working to create as much angst regarding PCGS as possible in order to create demand for additional 4th party solutions. At one point, the level of energy dedicated to creating this angst was so great that critics and their alts (i.e. SageRed...how childish) seemed bent on destroying the PCGS message board, an important resource for the community. I support PCGS, as they support my collecting interests. I suppose the actors discussed in my commentary believe they are champions of the hobby, and are acting on those passions. I don't believe they despise the hobby. I collect 20th century coins, and post to the forum using my real name. I don't have an alt. I I am passionate about them, and believe I am a championing the hobby. I suppose each have our own truths and motivations for posting here. I doubt any post here out of malice or dislike of the hobby. The board will be what we make it. Threads meant to gossip about the motivations of other posters are themselves meant to foment angst. JMO >>
Well said. That dog will hunt.
K
PS Fuzzybest- Please Google A-N-A-L-O-G-Y . I apologize in advance for the first 4 letters of this word.
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
The reason? We get passionate. We get excited. We have to battle all of this to keep our brains in charge when we see an apparent astounding deal, a great discovery, a rare variety at a coin show, a long-desired piece...
To guard against all this, I think that our numbers have a reflexive, defensive cynicism.
I've always said that the cynic is a latent sucker (or, in other contexts, a latent idealist), and I admit to the charge!
Simply put, I think that people around here reflexively guard against their enthusiasm (based on inevitable newbie mistakes), so as not to over-react and do something ill-advised based on passion.
The controls and inhibition fostered by this forum and it's defensive pseudo-cynicism has probably served us well.
I think many of us ought to acknowledge this vulnerablity, and treasure one another's willingness to offer us a balance to our passion, however defensive, over-wrought, fear-induced and irrational that balance may actually be at times!
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
<< <i>Why do people who despise the hobby post on the forum?
I can't speak for anyone else, but I love the hobby and there are still plenty of things about it that I loathe. And I see no reason to limit my comments here to one side of the coin or the other. >>
"or the other" ???
It may not be too late to reverse yourself.
I'm obligated to note the rim is once again being neglected, and at your own peril.
At least it's not a Manichean battle between the light and the darkside. Tri-Lateral Commission?
<< <i>This is a dangerous hobby. It's easy to be duped, even among the most knowledgeable. >>
This ^
Discover all unpredictable errors before they occur.
<< <i>This is a dangerous hobby. It's easy to be duped, even among the most knowledgeable.
The reason? We get passionate. We get excited. We have to battle all of this to keep our brains in charge when we see an apparent astounding deal, a great discovery, a rare variety at a coin show, a long-desired piece...
To guard against all this, I think that our numbers have a reflexive, defensive cynicism.
I've always said that the cynic is a latent sucker (or, in other contexts, a latent idealist), and I admit to the charge!
Simply put, I think that people around here reflexively guard against their enthusiasm (based on inevitable newbie mistakes), so as not to over-react and do something ill-advised based on passion.
The controls and inhibition fostered by this forum and it's defensive pseudo-cynicism has probably served us well.
I think many of us ought to acknowledge this vulnerablity, and treasure one another's willingness to offer us a balance to our passion, however defensive, over-wrought, fear-induced and irrational that balance may actually be at times! >>
You sound like Colonel Jessup.......well said!
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>Why do people who despise dealers continue to patronize them? >>
Same reason people who claim to despise our government don't move to another country I guess.
60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
edited to add the following: I owe Robert a retraction for one of my statements earlier in this thread. I earlier stated the following: "I remember the OP getting wound up a few years ago about his perception that David Hall was "bullying" (his words) one of his dealer friends." I looked through the archives and my email exchanges with you and do not see that those were your words. It was my assumption based on your posts here and on another board.
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
<< <i>David has it right. We get passionate. We get excited. Often, its political. I remember the OP getting wound up a few years ago about his perception that David Hall was "bullying" (his words) one of his dealer friends. I can only speculate regarding his motives, but he spent the next 6 months posting here and across the street about a forth party service that would redistribute the balance of power in the market. My recollection is that he was the first to break the news of a 4th party service here. It was a pretty negative time for PCGS shareholders. Threads such as this suggest renewed interest in promoting positive participation here. I view that as real growth and maturation. >>
It would be both an honor and a pleasure to be "bullyed" by David Hall, or Don Willis for that matter!
<< <i>
<< <i>David has it right. We get passionate. We get excited. Often, its political. I remember the OP getting wound up a few years ago about his perception that David Hall was "bullying" (his words) one of his dealer friends. I can only speculate regarding his motives, but he spent the next 6 months posting here and across the street about a forth party service that would redistribute the balance of power in the market. My recollection is that he was the first to break the news of a 4th party service here. It was a pretty negative time for PCGS shareholders. Threads such as this suggest renewed interest in promoting positive participation here. I view that as real growth and maturation. >>
It would be both an honor and a pleasure to be "bullyed" by David Hall, or Don Willis for that matter! >>
Yah, right.
<< <i>David has it right. We get passionate. We get excited. Often, its political. I remember the OP getting wound up a few years ago about his perception that David Hall was "bullying" (his words) one of his dealer friends. I can only speculate regarding his motives, but he spent the next 6 months posting here and across the street about a forth party service that would redistribute the balance of power in the market. My recollection is that he was the first to break the news of a 4th party service here. It was a pretty negative time for PCGS shareholders. Threads such as this suggest renewed interest in promoting positive participation here. I view that as real growth and maturation. >>
Actually, Don, I have been as consistent a supporter of PCGS as there has been, as a customer and investor. I had one lapse after a serious of service gaffes several years ago left me disappointed. Overall, no corporate entity has had a greater and more positive impact on me as a collector than PCGS. Yes, I was early to the CAC party and got the word out, and have been happy with my experience with them, as well. (I do not remember being bullied by David Hall, and if my friends were, well, that's either their perception or problem.) I try to stay on the positive side of things. You should try it!
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
<< <i>Let me add something positive to this thread before I give others the last word. One of the greatest things about being a modern collector is that I don't have to be aware of politically sensibilities. >>
One of the great things about being a coin collector is that I don't have to, either.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>None of the people I thought RYK was referring to in the OP has posted to the thread, yet. >>
Here, now are you happy
<< <i>None of the people I thought RYK was referring to in the OP has posted to the thread, yet. >>
I had to go back and look to see if I posted.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
<< <i>It reminds me of people who post "who cares" comments on fluffy news pieces or something else that doesn't particularly concern them. If it doesn't concern you and you don't care, why did you bother to post? Does it make you (royal "you") feel better or superior because you are showing people you don't care about things you think should be irrelevant? >>
I don't particularly care for people who only post to stir the pot either, but "I don't care" qualifies as an opinion just as much as a positive or negative response, I suppose. It's how others respond to that opinion that is usually the genesis of most of the difficulty.
On the other hand, who cares. This whole thread is irrelevant...
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>
<< <i>It reminds me of people who post "who cares" comments on fluffy news pieces or something else that doesn't particularly concern them. If it doesn't concern you and you don't care, why did you bother to post? Does it make you (royal "you") feel better or superior because you are showing people you don't care about things you think should be irrelevant? >>
I don't particularly care for people who only post to stir the pot either, but "I don't care" qualifies as an opinion just as much as a positive or negative response, I suppose. It's how others respond to that opinion that is usually the genesis of most of the difficulty.
On the other hand, who cares. This whole thread is irrelevant...
Says who??
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
certainly not directly what you meant, but what good does it do if a member posts a thread asking for opinions and nothing negative is said?? surely there are ways to state opinions so they seem like compliments when they aren't(we like to call it "constructive criticism") bit i often wonder how some members make it through life with such thin skins.
i have had some time to think about the OP's intended question and i can't think of anyone here who really despises the Hobby. please PM who you think does.
Forgive me but it looks like a lot of people need to relax and stay focused on the coins
Amat Colligendo Focum
Top 10 • FOR SALE
<< <i>im sure i could get along with anyone in here, that is unless they are a pedophile like walter breen >>
oh! I hadn't heard that one before. See, I learn something new every day! Love these forums
Amat Colligendo Focum
Top 10 • FOR SALE
with no original thoughts of their own, I still have learned so much and enjoyed the banter pro or con on several subjects. I just ignore what I can't control. This forum is just a microcosm
of who you might meet on the streets. Some you'll tip your hat to and some you'll just stare straight ahead as you pass them by.
<< <i>When I began collecting, I started reading threads on this forum to quickly gain knowledge about coins. Although some people mystify me with their responses or parroted responses like,
I can't understand why this would mystify you. There's nothing mystifying with an "I agree with you" post.
Sometimes another's post says it so well and completely that there is nothing else to add but one's agreement.
<< <i> ... and some you'll just stare straight ahead as you pass them by.
BTW, what's an album?
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)