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A quick look at PCGS grading of Draped Bust halves in middle circulated grades.

rheddenrhedden Posts: 6,632 ✭✭✭✭✭
Yesterday, I posted a "guess the grade" thread on an 1805 half dollar graded VF30 by PCGS. Most forum members undergraded it, and some went as low as F12. You can read this thread here. Congrats to the forum members who correctly graded it VF30 or VF25+. I suspect those folks are likely among the most experienced in collecting and grading Bust coins.

For the rest of us, I present to you a photo tutorial of PCGS-graded 1805 half dollars in "middle circulated grades." All images were adapted from publicly accessible photos in the Heritage Auction Archives for educational purposes only, and copyrights belong to Heritage. If this bothers anyone, I will take them down after we done discussing, as I do not wish to violate any rules or impinge on copyrights. We are fortunate that Heritage makes their archives accessible to everyone, as the large number of photos serve as a useful educational tool for both grading purposes and price research. Such information was not always available to collectors.

Turning to the photos below, all coins pictured below were graded by PCGS as indicated. One of the things you will notice immediately is that there is a lot of variation in striking characteristics between die marriages, which confuses the grading issue a lot. A lot of knowledge about the series is necessary to accurately grade any individual coin. A second observation is that some of the coins have original surfaces, and some do not, and the difference is glaring when the photos are compared side-by-side. A final observation is that coins with a fully readable E PLURIBUS UNUM are a virtual lock to grade VF30 or higher. Coins grading F12 or F15 typically have only a few letters visible in the Motto, while VF20 and VF25 coins have partial motto. I imagine there are coins with poorly struck, partially visible Motto that could grade VF30 or higher, but I did not find any in my search up to VF35. I find the Motto to be a much more reliable indicator of wear compared to the amount of hair detail on the obverse, which varies wildly between die marriages.

I hope you have enjoyed seeing this lineup, which was quite a bit of work to compile due to the need to resize the photos for a fair comparison. If desired, maybe someone can add higher and lower grade coins to expand the range covered.

PCGS VF35 (below)

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PCGS VF30 (below)

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PCGS VF25 (below)

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PCGS VF20 (below)

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PCGS F15 (below)

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PCGS F12 (below)

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Comments

  • rheddenrhedden Posts: 6,632 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I will add the photo of my VF30 for comparison. I think one could have figured out it was VF30 or better by noting the fully readable E PLURIBUS UNUM.

    image

  • michiganboymichiganboy Posts: 1,247 ✭✭✭
    I got this 1807 from jack beymer in santa rosa they graded a vg8 , thats why I said f12. Sorry about my bad photos, hoping to start using a new camera in a couple of days.

    Edited to add, Its also my only draped bust half, so I am by far a grading expert on these as I don't even look at them very often.
    image
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    Positive BST transactions:michaeldixon,nibanny,
    type2,CCHunter.
  • TomBTomB Posts: 22,090 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Here is my PCGS VF30 1805 O.112, which I submitted to PCGS in 1998, and where PCGS matched the grade that I assigned to the coin when it was raw-

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    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

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  • slumlord98slumlord98 Posts: 1,180
    The biggest hurdle to properly grading 1805 half dollars is that there was a hub change in 1805 dies. Forum member Nysoto offered evidence that this was actually accomplished in 1804. Look closely at the different examples posted and compare the left curl atop the head and you will see that the older hubbed dies have a higher tip. These also show stronger hair detail.

    IMHO PCGS does a very good job of grading these by not overgrading coins made from the earlier dies.
  • bosco5041bosco5041 Posts: 1,303
    When I first seen the obverse yesterday I had VF- 25 rolling around in my mind but when I seen the reverse it put it over the fence to a VF-30 for me. Although I am certainly not an expert in bust coinage I have taken an interest in them in the last few months and have looked at a lot of dealer websites of them. You hit the nail on the head in saying the reverse motto matters somewhat.
  • Billet7Billet7 Posts: 4,923 ✭✭✭
    If I may add some images to the thread. These all range from F12 to VF25. I sold them all a while back when I sold all my bust halves...well, almost all!

    F12
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    F15
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    VF20
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    VF25
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    F12
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    These are the two that I still own, there's just some coins that you can't say goodbye to!

    VG10
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    XF40
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  • Great strike on that 20. Does that toned 30 have adjustment marks?
  • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,893 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Here are a couple more higher-grade 1805's.
    Lance.

    imageimage
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  • bosco5041bosco5041 Posts: 1,303


    << <i>Here are a couple more higher-grade 1805's.
    Lance.

    imageimage
    imageimage >>

    Them are really nice bust halves, do you own them?
  • lasvegasteddylasvegasteddy Posts: 10,432 ✭✭✭
    hopefully no offence was taken or implied with my f15 guess
    it is a series i've never truly dabbled in
    this is an excellent thread....i applaud you here for the time n effort too
    so i guess my 1806 cbh that i wear around my neck would be a vf30-ish if it didn't have the hole in it
    image
    everything in life is but merely on loan to us by our appreciation....lose your appreciation and see


  • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,893 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Here are a couple more higher-grade 1805's.
    Lance. >>

    Them are really nice bust halves, do you own them? >>

    Nope, just shot them.

    The 1805/4 O.101 R3 is PCGS AU50. The other, O.111 R2, is PCGS AU58.
    Lance.
  • rheddenrhedden Posts: 6,632 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Those are some great coins. Thanks for sharing them!
  • USMoneyloverUSMoneylover Posts: 1,672 ✭✭✭
    Thanks for delving into the grading intricacies of the early halves, it's quite interesting viewing those coins lined up grade wise. I posted this coin raw a couple of months ago and recently got the grade back. Many people stated mid to high VF grades in my GTG thread, though PCGS only awarded it a VF20. I definitely see how die characteristics can change grading opinions. This coin is at CAC currently, I'll be interested how they perceive the grade!



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    Finest Coins and Relics
  • Rayman311Rayman311 Posts: 423 ✭✭✭
    Very informative. Thanks for sharing.
  • rheddenrhedden Posts: 6,632 ✭✭✭✭✭
    USmoneylover,

    I grade your coin VF25 for details based on the sequence of coins above; the motto is nearly complete. However, PCGS may have bumped it down a notch due to a few insignificant scratches. The reverse small scratch from N of UNITED to the left of the shield could be the culprit. I own numerous PCGS early type coins that fall into this category. It does appear to have nice original skin for the grade.
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,800 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I will post my VFs here as comps:

    PCGS VF-30:

    imageimage

    PCGS VF-25:

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    PCGS VF-30:

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  • ElmerFusterpuckElmerFusterpuck Posts: 4,800 ✭✭✭✭✭
    My only example of this type, 1805 PCGS VF-25:

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  • MikeInFLMikeInFL Posts: 10,188 ✭✭✭✭
    FWIW, here's my 1805 PCGS VF20 CAC:

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    Collector of Large Cents, US Type, and modern pocket change.

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