Should Lincoln Memorial reverses be graded Full Steps??

ambro51 · July 14, 2012 1:39PM

I read an excellent discussion on another forum as to if Lincoln Memorial reverses be graded Full Steps (or not). Quite a difficult chore, much akin to the nickels of similar eras, to have all the step lines present across the front of the Memorial. A few minutes with assorted coins shows this feature indeed is a strike grading point. Do the Heavy Hitter Lincoln Memorial guys make this a buying point, and should it be Designated by TPGs?

cladking · July 14, 2012 1:41PM

Yes.

I think it should include a little more than just steps (not the statue) and not be so brutally applied as with Jeffersons though.

MidLifeCrisis · July 14, 2012 1:43PM

My first thought was "Sure, why not? If the TPGs designate full steps on Jefferson Nickels to set them apart, they should do the same for all coins with steps."

But then I came to my senses and thought "What we need is to eliminate these special strike characteristics - Full Steps, Full Bell Lines, Full Head, etc. - because they artificially drive the price up or prevent nice coins with otherwise strong strikes from being traded equally."

ambro51 · July 14, 2012 2:04PM

Here's Full Steps

Zoins · July 14, 2012 2:08PM

Sure, why not?

Just make sure to include the number of steps in the requirements so there's no confusion.

devious · July 14, 2012 3:48PM

I was looking at a 1999 zincoln my girlfriend brought home from work that was colorfully toned and the reverse had full steps all the way down. I got to wondering why the TPGs have actually not yet started designating full steps with the memorial cents. So, I vote yes, absolutely. It is definitely a factor I look at when keeping some of the memorial cents. It makes for a wonderful looker having the full steps there. And I think that they should have them all (edited to add: to get the FS designation). I guess I have not looked at too many to understand the striking irregularities of the steps, but having them all definitely makes those memorial reverses a thrill to look at and see.

LanceNewmanOCC · July 14, 2012 4:10PM

.
it would make sense to me to do that if there were fewer full steps than not like with jeffies

ie: if 90% of the coins to receive designation are FS, it would be a waste of time since there wouldn't be anything special about them having steps
.

magikbilly · July 14, 2012 4:41PM

No, but will make cents.

Eric

stealer · July 14, 2012 4:41PM

Do they ever come not FS?

19Lyds · July 14, 2012 4:53PM

<< Do they ever come not FS? >>

Good Question.

Dennis88 · July 14, 2012 4:56PM

<< Do they ever come not FS? >>

Oh yeah. Some dates would be practically unknown with so-called full-steps.

I'd much rather have a "full details" definition. Even though the steps can be sharp, what about the beard on the obverse? Many early 1960s pennies look like Lincoln has the cheek of a newborn....

Dennis

ambro51 · July 14, 2012 10:08PM

The beard issue started going downhill from the '20s onward but the later coins cannot be held to this standard as it was wear on the Master die causing thus. The remedy arrived in 1969 in the form of a slightly reduced bust size and sharpening of the details....all downhill from there but the 2010 to date coins are a return to the original design, albeit without the precise hairline engraving seen on 1916 era coins.

keets · July 14, 2012 11:03PM

JMHO, no. we need the major TPG's to designate less things and not more.

ambro51 · July 14, 2012 11:26PM

I think it would breath new life into the LM registry sets and increase $ubmissiona.

keets · July 14, 2012 11:38PM

PCGS seems to have enough difficulty maintaining consistency in grading FS Jefferson Nickels in accordance with their own stated parameters, why would you ask them to engage in the same direction with another series?? my hunch is that what took place with the Roosevelt Dime series when FT began is the same that would happen with LM's-----prices on the newly designated coins would go up and holders of coins which had previously been gem would see their holding fall, and in some cases plummet.

cladking · July 15, 2012 12:46AM

<< My first thought was "Sure, why not? If the TPGs designate full steps on Jefferson Nickels to set them apart, they should do the same for all coins with steps."

But then I came to my senses and thought "What we need is to eliminate these special strike characteristics - Full Steps, Full Bell Lines, Full Head, etc. - because they artificially drive the price up or prevent nice coins with otherwise strong strikes from being traded equally." >>

The steps on the memorial cent occupy a large percentage of the reverse. That's why I
say add in the shubbery to define FS. If all this is well stuck then almost invariably the
entire reverse will be well struck. There is some correlation between well struck reverses
and obverses on memorials so this designation will typically identify well made coins. If
the standard is further applied more loosely by ignoring minor marks that bridge steps
then only a few coins will recieve the designation and it will really mean something about
strike.

These coins can be extremely elusive with FS by any definition but some dates are fairly
common. What I like to see in a memorial is the bottom step and steps fully formed in the
center. This is one of the last areas to strike up and the first that might not appear on a die.

magikbilly · July 15, 2012 1:19AM

<< I think it would breath new life into the LM registry sets and increase $ubmissiona. >>

is that $ynonymous with good for the hobby?

Eric

ambro51 · July 15, 2012 2:03AM

Of Cour$e!! The LM is our most numerous coin but we collectors have for the most part chosen to pooh pooh it. The TRUE rarities are all error coins. But, let the FS designation be applied and a whole new world of rarities will become widely known. ....wonder what a 1962 D FS in MS 66RD would bring, as a pop 1? So do I!

magikbilly · July 15, 2012 2:17AM

I was talking about the $ubmissions & $ets. I'd rather see more self education. Have a good Sunday Ambro! You haven't posted any wild early copper. I liked them threads, esp the one with the Mint red.

Eric

MidLifeCrisis · July 15, 2012 2:31AM

<< But, let the FS designation be applied and a whole new world of rarities will become widely known. .... >>

This should read -

"But, let the FS designation be applied and a whole new world of rarities will be created."

After all, that's what these strike designations have done...they've created rarities out of coins that aren't actually rare. It's good marketing.

Why don't we just make a special strike designation for every coin type?

Oh, Liberty's nose is fully struck. It's a Full Nose! I can see both nostrils! It's gotta be rare and worth a lot of money!

tahoe98 · July 15, 2012 2:37AM

...i vote for the separated knees designation.

LindeDad · July 15, 2012 2:41AM

I don't think they have enough room in the price guide to do it.
Already have Date and variety and mint mark and three colors now double it with steps.

Edscoin · July 15, 2012 2:56AM

Yes, Just as soon as they learn how to grade Full Step Nickels! They should start grading Full Step Lincolns.

magikbilly · July 15, 2012 2:59AM

<< 

<< But, let the FS designation be applied and a whole new world of rarities will become widely known. .... >>

This should read -

"But, let the FS designation be applied and a whole new world of rarities will be created."

After all, that's what these strike designations have done...they've created rarities out of coins that aren't actually rare. It's good marketing.

Why don't we just make a special strike designation for every coin type?

Oh, Liberty's nose is fully struck. It's a Full Nose! I can see both nostrils! It's gotta be rare and worth a lot of money! >>

This is good

Eric

ambro51 · July 15, 2012 3:56AM

.....talk to the St. Gaudens $20 collectors and they will tell you the "full nose" is a VERY important strike quality feature on the reverse of that Coin.

coinkat · July 15, 2012 4:02AM

no

messydesk · July 15, 2012 4:34AM

I don't think they should until there's a real market demand for it. All other full strike qualifiers were known to bring premiums before the TPGs started using them. Also, if they start grading Lincolns with "full steps" would there be weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth when they raise their modern fees to accommodate the reduced throughput resulting from having to more closely scrutinize Lincoln memorial cents?

I would think a full strike qualifier of some sort (thumb? hand?) on the WLH series would come first, but only after the marketplace has a significant demand for it.

I would imagine that the 1959-68 Lincolns, with their bigger, higher relief head (i.e., deeper obverse die) would be hardest to get this way, and the latest emaciated head/spaghetti hair ones would be easiest. Maybe only these first 10 years are really worth pursuing this way. Perspective from a Lincoln Memorial collector would be interesting.

mingot · July 15, 2012 4:37AM

If you're a lincoln collector and you posted yes in this thread be very careful. you might get what you are asking for.

Yours,
A Jefferson Nickel Collector.

LindeDad · July 15, 2012 4:47AM

When I was building a set of these and had to send in coins to be graded to fill hard to find slots. I always looked for a sharply defined Lincoln in the Memorial and that steps were hit free.

DIMEMAN · July 15, 2012 4:58AM

I'm with keets!

Too many now.......do away with them instead!

Should Lincoln Memorial reverses be graded Full Steps??

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