Screwed By PAYPAL - Lost to Croatia - Help Needed!
marcmoish
Posts: 6,670 ✭✭✭✭✭
Sold this Taler on Ebay ....winner in CROATIA -
International bidders/wins are shipped at buyers risk - uninsured.
NON-USA BIDDERS PLEASE NOTE: Overseas/International shipping is not available as I can NOT ship VIA Registered Mail. International bidders contact me prior to bidding with more information about First Class International Post/Mail which is uninsured and sent at BUYERS risk. Other available options are: Priority International Mail $16.95 or Express International Mail at $38.00 Exact postage to be determined after the auction ends.
What part of this message does PAYPAL not get? Why would they today favor the buyer and remit a refund OF MY MONEY.
Pray tell me, and if someone here feels I did something wrong please tell me - I have thick skin.
Listing is here;
Text
For the record PAYPAL says in the email today that I can fight this if I prove the item was delivered.
Of course I don't have proof it was delivered - the package falls off the map in JAMAICA, NY (JFK International Airport)
You entered: LJ638381163US Status: Processed through USPS Sort Facility .......Your item was processed through our JAMAICA, NY 11430 facility on May 18, 2012 at 5:26 am. No further information is available for this item. Additional information for this item is stored in files offline.....
Any comments or advice are appreciated.
International bidders/wins are shipped at buyers risk - uninsured.
NON-USA BIDDERS PLEASE NOTE: Overseas/International shipping is not available as I can NOT ship VIA Registered Mail. International bidders contact me prior to bidding with more information about First Class International Post/Mail which is uninsured and sent at BUYERS risk. Other available options are: Priority International Mail $16.95 or Express International Mail at $38.00 Exact postage to be determined after the auction ends.
What part of this message does PAYPAL not get? Why would they today favor the buyer and remit a refund OF MY MONEY.
Pray tell me, and if someone here feels I did something wrong please tell me - I have thick skin.
Listing is here;
Text
For the record PAYPAL says in the email today that I can fight this if I prove the item was delivered.
Of course I don't have proof it was delivered - the package falls off the map in JAMAICA, NY (JFK International Airport)
You entered: LJ638381163US Status: Processed through USPS Sort Facility .......Your item was processed through our JAMAICA, NY 11430 facility on May 18, 2012 at 5:26 am. No further information is available for this item. Additional information for this item is stored in files offline.....
Any comments or advice are appreciated.
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Comments
DPOTD-3
'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'
CU #3245 B.N.A. #428
Don
Ebay defines transaction terms (shipping/return policy) and forces payment by paypal as default. Paypal terms provide for nullification of terms agreed in primary transaction. Imagine buying something at a clothing store which provides for a return policy and paying with a credit card that prohibits such? Crazy.
I recall someone here continuously siding with paypal and buyers protection rules. I really dont follow the logic.
I sympathize with you as I encountered the same.
<< <i>ajaan I don't see where you see that - I can't believe I missed that - my auctions state no international shipping altogether - what the heck am I supposed to do if International bidders just bid like these fellow did? >>
You can cancel the sale.
I am really surprised no one has gone after them with a huge class action lawsuit. If so many people have been burnt than it is clearly a misleading paradigm as a seller.
The ebay term setting is very clear. Why would a seller then conclude that the terms agreed are null because of a payment method. Ebay should have a popup saying "Seller beware" each time a transaction (domestic/international, no difference) is completed with a buyer.
Edited:
Apparently there are discussions about this:
LINK 1
LINK 2
you mean AFTER the auction is over I could have CANCELLED the listing??
Zohar I checked both the addresses match up it seems....
Where does it state EXPRESS only?
<< <i>You can cancel the sale.
you mean AFTER the auction is over I could have CANCELLED the listing??
>>
Yes. One of the reason to cancle the sale is the buyer from country that I don't ship to
It hurts.
I'm almost positive that you can get a affidavit (given to you by paypal) notarised that you shipped the item, etc. And they will give you your money back.
Happened to me with rare Chinese coins to a Korean dealer and many others. Recent one was close to a $2k transaction w/ loose diamonds.
From my invoice:
Payment Instructions
MAY 13,2012 SEE ABOVE FOR SHIP DETAILS. EXPRESS IS 38$US. ADVISE IF YOU WANT ME TO RE-INVOICE AS EXPRESS.
CRAP I see I even asked him if he wants EXPRESS - after he PAID me PRIORITY
For his biggest buy $770 to Croatia I'd think.......sh-t!
Ive had that happen to me many times. Paypal gives the guy back his money without reading all the facts.
the one time with the guy from korea he said that out of the two lots sold to him (shipped in the SAME package) that he didnt recieve one and that the other one was fake.
Paypal had him send it back to me delivery confirmation and since it was less than a certain dollar amount as soon as it was marked delivered by my post office (it was sent to my PO BOX) they gave him all his money back without me actually recieving or opening the package. It just so happned the package was empty.
After complaining to paypal they sent me a affidavit (written statement of my side of the story hat i sent the coins and that they were both genuine, etc) via email - i printed it out and had to have it notarised at my bank (under oath it is notarised that that statement is true and whatnot) - and I had to fax it back to paypal. they need a cover sheet with your info, case number, etc.
When they recieved the paperwork they gave me my money back. I think it was because there is paypal seller protection. Sorry my memory is a bit rusty - I havent had to bother with this sort of thing in a few months.
another time was with a lot of small loose mixed cut diamonds that were from gold jewelry ( I bought it from my buddy who owns a gold buying shop - all were tested and removed from fine jewelry) it was around $2k. So I made the deal, got paid and sent them. a wholesale deal at wholesale price.
the buyer says he didnt get the same diamonds as the picture i sent him - they they were industrial grade (like for cutting tools and stuff - which they were NOT) and other lies and does a paypal case against me.
In order to provide evidence in my favor I had to get a signed statement by the seller I bought the diamonds from (on company letterhead) that they were of jewelry quality, etc and fax that paperwork along with a cover sheet with information on it to paypals case department.
eventually the scammer gave up and paypal released my money. If he would have continued all I would have needed was a notarised afadavit from paypal that the diamonds purchased from the guy I bought the lot from were the same diamonds sold to the buyer that was complaning on paypal - and they would have given me back my money like that.
You need to call paypal and see how you can work this out. I hate paypal but it is so convenient.
I wish you the best of luck!"""
Your problem is that you cannot prove that the package ever got there. USPS doesnt have tracking on any* international shipments. I know ebay and paypal are different companies so you might have to deal with ebay with your description. when you call paypal about a problem with an ebay auction they say call ebay and vise versa and you never really get anywhere.
I'm sure you will spend hours and hours talking to ebay and paypal workers in India - but if you ask them if their name really is "Peggy" and where they are located they never say their name actually is Ratesh and are working at a call center in Mumbai.
good luck - you will need it
The coin is probably sitting in Customs waiting to paid for.
had a similar thing happen. Also out of Jamaica this year in January.
LC007216576US = It starts and ends in Jamaica, NY.....
just wondering if there is something "fishy" in the Jamaica sorting location....
if they xray the items...., the attendants will know... and...????/
I had verbal contact with the seller. Was told that this actually happened several times "lately".
maybe some authority should investigate .....
I filed a claim with paypal and received all my money back.. would have rather had a scarce coin.
BUT, I was the buyer...
am wondering if the seller was now out the $ and the coin, or if the seller had to claim sellers protection, if there is such a thing with FeePal?
World Collection
British Collection
German States Collection
JCH - I did look at the listing it says shipping to UNITED STATES only - that's what has be fuming - I obviously make it clear I won't ship overseas yet I do - at their risk or so I thought - has been OK for a spell and now this s--t !
I have looked high and low and can not find where it says how one must ship overseas (Express?) and so forth?
Can anyone advise me where I can find that?
FYI I think JAMAICA NY is the JFK CARGO HUB or something like that - I understand its huge.
Item Not Received Additional Requirements:
You must provide Proof of Delivery as described below in Section 11.4.
11.4 Proof of Shipment, Proof of Delivery and Signature Confirmation Requirements.
"Proof of Delivery" is online documentation from a shipping company that includes all of the following:
•The item’s status as delivered.
•The date the item is delivered.
•The recipient address is the same as in the shipping address section on the Transaction Details Page.
•The recipient's address, showing at least the city & state, or city & country, or zip/postal code (or international equivalent).
•Signature Confirmation as described below if the full amount of the payment including shipping and taxes, is $250 USD or more.
"Signature Confirmation" is online documentation that can be viewed at the shipping company’s website and indicates that the item was signed for on delivery.
DPOTD-3
'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'
CU #3245 B.N.A. #428
Don
It says clearly I need a delivery signature period!
I saw that too and wondered about the gray areas.....based on this I messed up by not knowing better and assuming they'd go in my favor in case of a loss as I clearly state no overseas .....yada yada....bla bla who cares - they for sure don't!
the bigger joke is even if I ship REGISTERED but the package falls off the plane at JAMAICA, NY I'm scrwed b/c I have no delivery signature.
What a culture shock
I wonder if I can state personal checks only from overseas or some other method than PAYPAL...?
I love the PAYPAL convenience but the do royally suck!
You will see the class action as this is a misleading policy by 2 related companies.
Ebay Sucks for sellers too.
I feel your pain.
Had this happen to me before with an 8 Reales I sold to a gentleman in Hong Kong.
I learned my lesson and now I don't sell on ebay unless I'm desperate.
Even when I sell on ebay, I don't sell to people overseas.
The only coins I've ever shipped out of USA is for people on this forum.
P.S. Did you guys know that Ebay's Buyer Protection will allow a buyer to return anything with no questions asked even if you state in your auction "No Returns"?
I had to learn the hard way after a loser on ebay dipped a coin I sold, decided he didnt want it after a month, filed a "Not as described" through Ebay's Buyer Protection, Paypal placed a hold on my funds, had the buyer returned the damaged coin back to me and refunded the buyer.
<< <i>
<< <i>ajaan I don't see where you see that - I can't believe I missed that - my auctions state no international shipping altogether - what the heck am I supposed to do if International bidders just bid like these fellow did? >>
You can cancel the sale. >>
Bingo .. it really is that simple
<< <i>I wonder if I can state personal checks only from overseas or some other method than PAYPAL...? >>
If you do this and eBay finds out, they'll cancel your auction.
DPOTD-3
'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'
CU #3245 B.N.A. #428
Don
8 Reales Madness Collection
<< <i>mr p so I'm basically screwed royally????
It says clearly I need a delivery signature period! >>
If there is no signature that PayPal can confirm online, you're hosed. This (difficulty & expense of getting international confirmation) is the reason that when I start selling on eBay again, I will only be shipping to US addresses.
If you use Turbo Lister, under options (buyer requirements), you can block buyers who have a primary shipping address in a location that you do not ship to. For each listing within Turbo Lister, you can also specify Shipping Options and there is a tab called "Exclude Locations" that you can use to reference your MyEbay exclusion list.
Merely saying things like "I don't ship internationally" or "buyer's risk" means absolutely nothing to PayPal, ebay or to a buyer. You have to actually set the flags to block bidders.
You can also use InsurePost.com to insure shipments to some locations overseas.
DeiGratia, I'd sure like to know who that buyer was so that I can block him.
DPOTD-3
'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'
CU #3245 B.N.A. #428
Don
That's something to consider I'll look into that tommorrow I don't recall what value if any I put down - most ask sellers to state its a gift or a sample or something of little value.
best news so far - for future use - is one can cancel the sale - I truly did not know that.
Unfortunately I might have to do that as most international shipments have gone perfect and this one just kills the moment and has me looking at the international route/avenues with disgust.
Many are telling me they simply don't ship overseas - even Registered falls off the radar and one is simliarly scrwed than too.
Just amazing that paypal/ebay can get away with this BS for so long and with such obvious chutzpah!
AJAAN I hear ye - it was just a thought - I really have no intention to ask for money via checks - the whole sale would take forever to conclude too-
Does anyone know if shipping USPS INTERNATIONAL EXPRESS would have made any difference in this case?
MrP it seems I may indeed be hosed and learnt a valuable lesson - like WYBRIT is saying also I need to learn to block all countries or do whatever it takes so in future this would not happen.
Z if you see this taler around you have my permision to beat the crap outta the carrier
I will try the Package in customs angle and hope the buyer is honest enough to tell me if INDEED ITS STUCK IN CUSTOMS.
<< <i>
the bigger joke is even if I ship REGISTERED but the package falls off the plane at JAMAICA, NY I'm scrwed b/c I have no delivery signature.
>>
If you ship registered you can ask usps to get the dilivery status for you. They will send you a letter with status. So you can use that letter to get your money back.
<< <i>PayPal requires a signature that can be viewed online on the shipping company's website. A letter from the post office will not do. >>
If that's the case I don't think you can get signature online for international mail. I just tested it with one of my express mail. Online showed you can request proof of delivery but when I click that link to request the proof I received an email couple minutes later saying "..... we regret to inform you that we were unable to locate any delivery information in our records regarding your item number ......... If you require additional assistance please take this receipt to your local post office or postal representative."
Delivered
June 27, 2012, 5:15 pm
SWEDEN
Registered Mail™
Arrival at Pick-Up Point
June 27, 2012, 7:57 am
SWEDEN
<< <i>JT where did you get that information? >>
tracking number from USPS site.
LJ638381163US
Processed through USPS Sort Facility
Your item was processed through our JAMAICA, NY 11430 facility on May 18, 2012 at 5:26 am.
No further information is available for this item. Information on this item has been restored from offline files and will be available online for 30 days from 07/08/2012.
You are saying EXPRESS won't cut it either nothing nada - Registered or Cancel the sale?
My buyer just emailed me after I tried contacting him re looking into Customs etc.
His Reply;
Dear marcmoish,
Of course I checked in at the post office and customs,
Thaler has not reached the Croatian,
If by any chance comes do not worry I will return your money,
I was also interested to get Thaler,
That's why I paid so much
regards
Dario
- re1000vz
Than I have to agree at this stage I see only a lose/lose situation in shipping overseas.
I have shipped a number of times over the years and I have never been burnt .... this time I got hosed on a good piece and learnt my lesson - how sad as I like communicating and shipping to folks in Russia, Far East and Europe and I have no choice but to avoid it now like a plague.
what exactly did you write on the customs declaration?
<< <i>I realize quite clearly what I am saying. Due to the way PayPal's policies are structured, international shipping can be risky for the seller regardless of how you ship. No doubt about it. >>
I agree. For those sellers that don't want to user registered or express, you are on your own.
<< <i>For those sellers that don't want to user registered or express, you are on your own. >>
Even with registered/express, there is a risk that you will end up eating a loss.