What would you think of a coin that had been cleaned with this method?

vibr0nic · July 2, 2012 2:24PM

Dry ice blasting. Tiny pellets of dry ice are sent at high speed (similar to sand blasting) toward a "contaminated" surface. Upon striking the surface, the dry ice pellets sublimate (turn from solid to gas), blasting away the "contaminants". The original surface underneath is perfectly preserved and untouched. This method of cleaning has been used successfully to clean delicate old books, antique museum quality wood furniture, and railings of old historic buildings. The part around 2:30 in the video involves specifically cleaning metal surfaces. I am curious how you would feel about a coin that had been cleaned this way - on one hand altering the coin in its natural state, yet also preserving the integrity of the original coin.

LanceNewmanOCC · July 2, 2012 2:31PM

.
dang. i don't know what the hazards are but that looks quite promising. i don't know about coins though.
.

coinbuf · July 2, 2012 2:37PM

Would be interesting to see it done and the results now and after a few yrs.

cladking · July 2, 2012 3:07PM

This will not work for coins.

It's not impossible that there is some highly limited application but unlikely.

It's an interesting process though. Of course it can only be used in well ventilated areas since
CO2 is fatal in concentrations over 1% and it tends to "puddle" since it's much heavier than air.

I don't see a lot of advantages except for specific jobs (and removing lead based paint is hardly
one of them).

keyman64 · July 2, 2012 3:19PM

<< This will not work for coins.

It's not impossible that there is some highly limited application but unlikely.

It's an interesting process though. Of course it can only be used in well ventilated areas since
CO2 is fatal in concentrations over 1% and it tends to "puddle" since it's much heavier than air.

I don't see a lot of advantages except for specific jobs (and removing lead based paint is hardly
one of them). >>

Fatal Schmatal...BUT you might get the coin to bump a grade!

adamlaneus · July 2, 2012 3:22PM

looks abrasive to me.

metal on the surface of a coin is rather delicate.

lasvegasteddy · July 2, 2012 4:16PM

<< looks abrasive to me.

metal on the surface of a coin is rather delicate. >>

put me in this crowd too...

have you sent in a couple coins for them to test this with...maybe it can get png approval

vibr0nic · July 2, 2012 4:39PM

<< 

<< looks abrasive to me.

metal on the surface of a coin is rather delicate. >>

put me in this crowd too...

have you sent in a couple coins for them to test this with...maybe it can get png approval >>

I have not tested it, nor have I inquired about doing this, nor am I recommending it!

I just found the technology very interesting, and considered its application in numismatics. The claim that it is not abrasive at all - that nothing hard actually touches the surfaces, since the pellets sublimate into gas instantly upon contact with the surface.

adamlaneus · July 2, 2012 5:00PM

contact with the surface. you said it yourself.

little hard bits of ice will contact the surface, bounce off, then sublimate.

it is sandblasting with a mild abrasive.

i bet it's been tried too. it seems like everything under the sun has been tried on coins.

Unknown · July 2, 2012 5:02PM

This content has been removed.

TwoSides2aCoin · July 2, 2012 9:36PM

Sounds interesting in theory. Results play the biggest part and I'm not one to experiment. Though , it's still a form of conservation, it could be less intrusive than current processes, but I don't know. I'm thankful for the interesting perspective.

PerryHall · July 2, 2012 10:00PM

I can't imagine blasting the surfaces of a coin with dry ice or any other blasting media will result in an acceptable coin. Also, even if this process produced desirable results, how many collectors would even have access to this device?

lasvegasteddy · July 2, 2012 10:14PM

hey vibro,
hopefully you didn't take any implied offence there...my reply was implying any seriousness there
one thing additional i'd add though

yayy gases only hit the surface...but then...yuck...those gases under pressure take dirt and particles and move them across a surface under pressure and speed
it would destory a coin...having particles being blown into and across surfaces at speed..."danger will robinson" stuff here...

Broadstruck · July 2, 2012 10:31PM

vibr0nic, Thanks for posting as outside of numismatics that's very cool blasting/removal technology!

ColonelJessup · July 3, 2012 12:26AM

What Colonel Klink said.

Depends on whether you're a strict constructionist or not. Much remains to be seen.

I would also like to see the results on a sample of different coins and surfaces, with contamination and without. I expect we'll see something posted in the next several months.

CJ

MsMorrisine · July 3, 2012 12:48AM

to remove something it must be abrasive to some extent.

they are likely adjusting the pressure to adjust the delicacy of the abrade.

I'd try it on a dug coin or an already damaged (eg lost to verdigris) coin first to see if it could de crud one. It'd be interesting to see what it could do.

TomB · July 3, 2012 2:21AM

From the video it appears to be analogous to an extremely gentle version of sandblasting. The dry ice particles must be small enough so that when they impact the contaminant they sublimate nearly instantly. However, there is still an impact in order to dislodge the dirt, grime, grease, paint, etc...I've used lots of dry ice and would imagine that the underlying surface would have telltale signs of having been cleaned, which would not work well for coins.

jmcu12 · July 3, 2012 3:44AM

Lets try it. And then we can submit through PCGS and see if they grade.

What kind of coin would you like? How about a heavily corroded large cent?

Broadstruck · July 3, 2012 3:49AM

<< Lets try it. >>

jmcu12, Please post your results after you buy a franchise!

Timbuk3 · July 3, 2012 3:51AM

Yea, let's try it !!!

jmcu12 · July 3, 2012 3:54AM

yes, exactly.

But on a serious note I have the perfect large cent that would be awesome to see if I could resurect from the ashes so to speak.

jmcu12 · July 3, 2012 4:02AM

I just emailed and offered to be a guinea pig for them. I doubt I will get a response but the video makes it look really neat

coinbuf · July 3, 2012 4:10AM

Cool keep us updated, I for I am interested in what the results would be. Nothing ventured nothing gained.

LindeDad · July 3, 2012 6:10AM

Would the 92 code still apply?

SanctionII · July 3, 2012 6:34AM

Interesting video.

I wonder what would happen if the nozzle spraying the dry ice crystals was pointed at a human hand covered with dirt, grime, paint or mud. Would the stuff on the hand be removed without any pain, discomfort or damage to the hand.

I also remember that sound waves have also been used to, how shall I say it..................... "move matter". I wonder if anyone working in the area of sounds or acoustics has even participated in experiments to determine how effective high frequency, high decibel, tightly focused sound waves are at cleaning stuff.

Same thing with water. Has anyone ever taken a dirty coin and removed the dirt from the coin with a high pressure spray of water that is forced through a very small opening at high velocity? I am sure that doing so would remove dirt from the coin, but what would the water do to the surface of the coin. Maybe I will try it tomorrow with some pocket change.

jmcu12 · July 5, 2012 4:13AM

I have contacted the company and they are willing to give it a go.

Here is what I anticipated on sending - I want to make the sample small as to not take too much of their time and take advantage.

BU Morgan - no problems
Heavily corroded large cent
seated quarter that has been bent, probably cleaned, and has another substance on the surface like a stain or something.

What do you think?

DieClash · July 5, 2012 5:03AM

<< I have contacted the company and they are willing to give it a go.

Here is what I anticipated on sending - I want to make the sample small as to not take too much of their time and take advantage.

BU Morgan - no problems
Heavily corroded large cent
seated quarter that has been bent, probably cleaned, and has another substance on the surface like a stain or something.

What do you think? >>

Sounds like a fun experiment. Be sure to capture before pix for comparison after. Did they give you a time-frame for completing the cleaining?

Cheers!

Kirk

MsMorrisine · July 5, 2012 5:29AM

i'm still on the idea of a dug coin and one that is already considered lost to verdigris

BAJJERFAN · July 5, 2012 6:04AM

<< I have contacted the company and they are willing to give it a go.

Here is what I anticipated on sending - I want to make the sample small as to not take too much of their time and take advantage.

BU Morgan - no problems
Heavily corroded large cent
seated quarter that has been bent, probably cleaned, and has another substance on the surface like a stain or something.

What do you think? >>

The term blasting when applied to cleaning usually infers removal of something from the surface of the object being cleaned. I think a heavily corroded copper coin would not fare well from this approach. Seems like the ideal way [if it is cost effective] to remove milks spots from silver eagles. Got a spotted ASE to send?

MsMorrisine · July 5, 2012 6:12AM

a milk spotted ASE is also a good idea.

coinbuf · July 5, 2012 6:19AM

Sounds like good test subjects, you have a control piece in the morgan and two that are not really collectable in their current state. I'd agree that a spotted ASE might be interesting also as would a junk toined silver coin to see if the process removes the toining.

PerryHall · July 5, 2012 7:13AM

What's the point of cleaning a corroded large cent? It's not like this process will fix any problems such as pitting.

Batman23 · July 5, 2012 7:38AM

The Morgan is a good reference. The corroded cent... will be interesting but I am not expecting much there.

"seated quarter that has been bent, probably cleaned, and has another substance on the surface like a stain or something" Although interesting the "probably cleaned" part would keep me from sending it in as it is not a good surface to test the ability/gentleness of this technique.

I would look for a naturally black toned ugly common date quarter or half. Then I would look at a BU white Morgan to compare the actual damaging affects of the process, nothing to remove but the mint luster so to speak.

Keep us posted!

BAJJERFAN · July 5, 2012 8:07AM

<< What's the point of cleaning a corroded large cent? It's not like this process will fix any problems such as pitting. >>

I'd think it is more about testing the limits.

michiganboy · July 5, 2012 8:12AM

Yeah I think a ASE with milk spots or anything like toning, for the reasons are you can get these pretty much without surface damage that way you can see the extant of damage if any it will cause. I mean who really bothers to try and clean an already cleaned, circulated, or damaged coin? I would think the point would be to see if it would make the coin look better, right?

Constantine · July 5, 2012 9:15AM

I would include a proof silver eagle. Soft surface and highy reflective finish.

Not sure why a bent coin would be added. If these were indeed sent to PCGS for a slab attempt, that would already get bagged.

BAJJERFAN · July 5, 2012 11:28AM

<< 
Not sure why a bent coin would be added . >>

If it damages the coin, he isn't out anything. Also it is a risk-free way to see about removing the other stain.

What would you think of a coin that had been cleaned with this method?

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