Do all Proof 1952 "Superbird"korters have re-engraved TF's?

coindeuce · June 26, 2012 2:14PM

I've looked at the varietyvista.com listing and read the recent threads here, but I can't get a handle on this.

19Lyds · June 26, 2012 4:44PM

Yes. FS-902 is specifically for the re-engraved Tail Feathers for the Superbird.

FS-901 is the regular Superbird.

1tommy · June 26, 2012 10:03PM

If your asking if all the superbirds have Engraved Tailfeathers the answer is NO, I own 8 examples of the 1952 superbird and only 1 had them, they are MUCH rarer than the Superbird itself. So far there has been only 5 of these found. The link in the other thread shows the picture and its the easy way to compare if you have the one with or without. I was really surprised to hear other members have found ones graded proof 66 and maybe a 67 as I truly thought if the dies were so worn out that the grades on these would be Proof 65 and lower. Enjoy Tom

901 number is for the superbird itself and the 902 number is for both...On the 1953 the number is 901 and the same for the 57 d .

DorkGirl · June 26, 2012 11:45PM

What's a korter?

coindeuce · June 27, 2012 12:19AM

<< What's a korter?

>>

Izza koin.

1tommy, I viewed the image from varietyvista, but it isn't clear from the image what the difference is between the standard reverse and the re-engraved reverse. Can you show a side by side comparison? I want to believe that it should be self evident, but I've seen some ridiculously subtle differences before in Morgan dollar VAMs.

ProofArtworkonCircs · June 27, 2012 12:41AM

<<Yes. FS-902 is specifically for the re-engraved Tail Feathers for the Superbird.

FS-901 is the regular Superbird.>>

Actually, NO (for the OP's question), the FS-901 does not have reengraved tailfeathers.

Thanks 1Tommy for your data. I was beginning to think maybe the reengraved tailfeathers were the more common one with the forum folk chimming in with theirs. But it would seem to be rare after all.

ProofArtworkonCircs · June 27, 2012 1:10AM

<<1tommy, I viewed the image from varietyvista, but it isn't clear from the image what the difference is between the standard reverse and the re-engraved reverse. Can you show a side by side comparison? I want to believe that it should be self evident, but I've seen some ridiculously subtle differences before in Morgan dollar VAMs.>>

Actually the varietyvista pictures are quite good. What is missing is a normal coin for comparasion.
Look at the tail feathers in their picture. There are thin, but very distinct, lines in relief added to the feathers. They are not particulary well centered. They are obvious in that picture and obvious on the coins. Other pictures I have seen have left me wondering. I thought utahcoin's picture was a reengravred one, but I wasn't sure from the pix.

A more common example of centerlines of tailfeathers in relief would be the early (1965-1992) clad quarters. They even pulled the old type B masters out of storage in late 1968 and added those relief lines to the tailfeathers giving us type H which was used on mainly proofs and a very few circulation strikes through 1972.

19Lyds · June 27, 2012 1:14AM

<< <<Yes. FS-902 is specifically for the re-engraved Tail Feathers for the Superbird.

FS-901 is the regular Superbird.>>

Actually, NO (for the OP's question), the FS-901 does not have reengraved tailfeathers.

Thanks 1Tommy for your data. I was beginning to think maybe the reengraved tailfeathers were the more common one with the forum folk chimming in with theirs. But it would seem to be rare after all. >>

Actually, the OP changed the thread title from "Do all Proof 1952 FS-902 Superbird korters have re-engraved TF's?" to what it is now so my answer was correct .

1tommy · June 27, 2012 1:16AM

<< <<Yes. FS-902 is specifically for the re-engraved Tail Feathers for the Superbird.

FS-901 is the regular Superbird.>>

Actually, NO (for the OP's question), the FS-901 does not have reengraved tailfeathers.

Thanks 1Tommy for your data. I was beginning to think maybe the reengraved tailfeathers were the more common one with the forum folk chimming in with theirs. But it would seem to be rare after all. >>

I am sure there are a few 901 superbirds out there that are Not in the right holders as this is a new discovery and many have yet to be found, pop reports will show the five 1953 that have been found and the 2 1952 that have already been graded with three more including mine that were recently found. I truly believe the 53 has more than the 52 and the 57 d I am still in search of ONE example. Lets go back to the 53 here is the link to the one that sold first on teletrade, after enlarging there REVERSE picture to around 72 percent you can totally see these lines, remember your looking at the TAIL Feathers Not the wing feathers and also look at that leaf coming up where the postion is on the 53 see its off to the right alittle. On all three examples the lines are NOT in the same position. Being these were hand engraved into the dies that is one reason there different for each year. The 53 is easy to see the 52 is not and I think the 57 is even harder to see. 1953 teletrade The 53 the lines comes down all the way, on the 52 they do not. Hope that helps explain it alittle better..........Enjoy tom

Also if you look and compare the picture from teletrade on the 53 and than go look at the variety vista 52 you can see the Engraved tail feathers are not in the same spot..........

ProofArtworkonCircs · June 27, 2012 1:34AM

<<Actually, the OP changed the thread title from "Do all Proof 1952 FS-902 Superbird korters have re-engraved TF's?" to what it is now so my answer was correct .>>

Very understandable. I cringe when that happens to me. I don't know whether to amend my answer or leave it be. I am slowly learning that questioning your judgement is questionable.

1tommy · June 27, 2012 1:45AM

<< <<Actually, the OP changed the thread title from "Do all Proof 1952 FS-902 Superbird korters have re-engraved TF's?" to what it is now so my answer was correct .>>

Very understandable. I cringe when that happens to me. I don't know whether to amend my answer or leave it be. I am slowly learning that questioning your judgement is questionable. >>

Yes lee was correct its confusing, the 52 has the number 902 because 901 was the superbird alone, I think the others (53 and 57d) should be 902 like the 52 because they are ETF but they decided to make those 901's

Enjoy tom

ProofArtworkonCircs · June 27, 2012 1:54AM

<<I am sure there are a few 901 superbirds out there that are Not in the right holders as this is a new discovery and many have yet to be found, pop reports will show the five 1953 that have been found and the 2 1952 that have already been graded with three more including mine that were recently found. I truly believe the 53 has more than the 52 and the 57 d I am still in search of ONE example. Lets go back to the 53 here is the link to the one that sold first on teletrade, after enlarging there REVERSE picture to around 72 percent you can totally see these lines, remember your looking at the TAIL Feathers Not the wing feathers and also look at that leaf coming up where the postion is on the 53 see its off to the right alittle. On all three examples the lines are NOT in the same position. Being these were hand engraved into the dies that is one reason there different for each year. The 53 is easy to see the 52 is not and I think the 57 is even harder to>>

I always assumed the reverse dies were all different for the 3 years. I am glad to hear it is confirmed.
Now the possibily exists that there could be multiple similar dies within the same year. Can you find any examples where the tailfeathers are differnt within a given year?

I noticed the tailfeathers on my sole Superbird years ago. Then a coin magazine came out with a 1953 proof on its cover. It had the reengraved tailfeathers on the quarter but no mention of that. I began to think reengraved tailfeathers were no big deal.

I don't remember which magazine it was, but Alan Herbert was the editor and it also had a life size $10 bill on the cover. This has stuck in my mind since Alan had always writen "don't make exact size copies of paper money".

1tommy · June 27, 2012 3:10AM

I always assumed the reverse dies were all different for the 3 years. I am glad to hear it is confirmed.
Now the possibily exists that there could be multiple similar dies within the same year. Can you find any examples where the tailfeathers are differnt within a given year?

I noticed the tailfeathers on my sole Superbird years ago. Then a coin magazine came out with a 1953 proof on its cover. It had the reengraved tailfeathers on the quarter but no mention of that. I began to think reengraved tailfeathers were no big deal.

I don't remember which magazine it was, but Alan Herbert was the editor and it also had a life size $10 bill on the cover. This has stuck in my mind since Alan had always writen "don't make exact size copies of paper money". >>

Now thats interesting and brings up a few more questions, I googled the name Alan Herbert and see he is or was a part of the Numismatic News staff and has a book out. It surprises me that you noticed these a few years back. I too had read somewhere before the cherry pickers guide even came out and thats when I started to search. Would need to see a few of these examples side by side to see if there was any difference in those dies. Or if they all come from one Single die for each year. I wonder if you contacted him and asked him if he would reply? Here is the two links I found sure would like to know a few more things about these. Enjoy tom Numismatic News and the book for sale...Alan Herbert Book

coindeuce · June 27, 2012 3:28AM

<< <<Actually, the OP changed the thread title from "Do all Proof 1952 FS-902 Superbird korters have re-engraved TF's?" to what it is now so my answer was correct .>>

Very understandable. I cringe when that happens to me. I don't know whether to amend my answer or leave it be. I am slowly learning that questioning your judgement is questionable. >>

I was not aware before initially posting the thread that the FS-902 specifically set the re-engraved TF variety apart from the FS-901 for 1952 Proofs. The question was rhetorical as it was initially.

ProofArtworkonCircs · June 27, 2012 8:09AM

<<Now thats interesting and brings up a few more questions, I googled the name Alan Herbert and see he is or was a part of the Numismatic News staff and has a book out. It surprises me that you noticed these a few years back. I too had read somewhere before the cherry pickers guide even came out and thats when I started to search. Would need to see a few of these examples side by side to see if there was any difference in those dies. Or if they all come from one Single die for each year. I wonder if you contacted him and asked him if he would reply? Here is the two links I found sure would like to know a few more things about these. >>

I am quite sure Alan would reply. His e-mail address is AnswerMan2@aol.com. l am not giving away any secrets here since it is published every week in Numismatic News' Coin Clinic.

Here is something that may be worth trying. We should all look at our silver Washingtons and check for reengraving. There may be other dates waiting to be discovered. I recommend the years 1942-1945. Bill Edwards has stated that there was a lot of reengraving down during World War II.

steveben · June 27, 2012 8:39AM

<< What's a korter?

>>

oh man...i didn't know what that was when i first read the title. then when i read your question...i was like "korter?" HA! i thought nickle was bad!

i collect egulls, so, what do i know anyway?

19Lyds · June 28, 2012 10:54AM

<< 

<< What's a korter?

>>

oh man...i didn't know what that was when i first read the title. then when i read your question...i was like "korter?" HA! i thought nickle was bad!

i collect egulls, so, what do i know anyway? >>

Pegasus1 · July 1, 2012 1:55AM

Hay Tommy, Did anyone notice the fs-902 on ebay last week???It was certified as a LDS(late die state) FS-902 superbird graded PF-66 by ANACS, I could not get a good look at the tailfeathers but I would hope that ANACS has the correct photos and expertize to grade a FS-902. The coin sold for $261.00, do you know how rare of a coin the FS-902 might become????Thanks DH Or does anyone know how rare this FS-902 might be?????and any prices????

superpsychmd · July 1, 2012 3:12AM

I would like to know as well. I looked at my two super birds yesterday and one seems to be the real deal judging from the photos. It was in a pcgs 67 cac holder as a 901. Can I buy a new house with it? LOL

Do all Proof 1952 "Superbird"korters have re-engraved TF's?

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Do all Proof 1952 &quot;Superbird&quot;korters have re-engraved TF's?

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Do all Proof 1952 "Superbird"korters have re-engraved TF's?