PCGS Genuine Surfaces Smoothed

123cents · June 19, 2012 5:33AM

I am seeing more and more PCGS Genuine coins with this notation. How is this being done?

STONE · June 19, 2012 5:35AM

Whizzing
Lasers
Tasers
Elve's
Oven
Train and Railroad Tracks

123cents · June 19, 2012 5:39AM

I thought PCGS called whizzing, whizzing not smoothed surfaces. You learn something ever day.

STONE · June 19, 2012 5:40AM

They use their terms interchangably and are inconsistent occasionally!

RevDrBlimber · June 19, 2012 6:33AM

Here is an example of a proof $20 Liberty that was "smoothed". http://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/58308/1904-Liberty-Double-Eagle-Proof-PCGS-Genuine-AU-Details

Pretty benign expression, that.

braddick · June 19, 2012 7:16AM

I'd rather have smoothed rather than whizzed.

abitofthisabitofthat · June 19, 2012 7:21AM

I have gotten 'smoothed' on a few large cents lately that left me baffled.

123cents · June 19, 2012 7:25AM

<< I have gotten 'smoothed' on a few large cents lately that left me baffled. >>

Yes, I know what you mean. I think it is a catch all phrase for all the things that Stone mentioned.

lasvegasteddy · June 19, 2012 8:04AM

can anyone here enlighten me if they have 1st hand knowledge of a "laser"
ever being seen or used in numismatics in their presence other then for etching???

as an ex-aerospace machinist this term puzzles me here

laser's in manufacturing can etch a surface or burn elements
i've never heard of "moving by light & energy" the elements
even such moving as referenced is quite envolved (ex c/nc programmer here certified in 83')
the one's i'm aware of aren't a hand-held gizmo...it's a very precise laboratory piece of equipment
from what i recall too
laser technology wasn't cheap then...is it affordable now?
the set-up itself was quite involved too that involves alot of power consumption

i bite my tongue or probably should have recalling the 1st person to state such a thing (such person is not held in my respect should i add)

so if anyone here...has in fact...seen a laser used in doctoring
or someone who owns one that has applicable use
please inform me or pm me...i promise to keep a secret

daniel carr is one who could pop in with his manufacturing knowledge...i'd listen
as he's a mechanical engineer type
been around many a shop machine tool

surely other machinist or mechanical engineer types are welcome too
enlighten me...i've been out of trade since 96'...but was quite involved uptil then

Spooly · June 19, 2012 8:30AM

<< I have gotten 'smoothed' on a few large cents lately that left me baffled. >>

Broadstruck · June 19, 2012 8:39AM

<< I have gotten 'smoothed' on a few large cents lately that left me baffled. >>

Smoothened copper cents are polished/rubbed with a thumb in a dry cloth.

Walkerguy21D · June 19, 2012 10:49AM

Would burnished large cents also be classified as 'smoothed'?
There are MANY of these floating around raw in the market place, especially among the pre-1816 coins.

ebaybuyer · June 19, 2012 11:31AM

appears to be a loosly used term, if the coin looks as if "something" may have been done to it, and no one can figure out exactly what... its called smoothed.

Spooly · June 19, 2012 11:31AM

<< Smoothened copper cents are polished/rubbed with a thumb in a dry cloth. >>

I call those "cleaned".

RevDrBlimber · June 19, 2012 11:46AM

<< can anyone here enlighten me if they have 1st hand knowledge of a "laser"
ever being seen or used in numismatics in their presence other then for etching???

as an ex-aerospace machinist this term puzzles me here

laser's in manufacturing can etch a surface or burn elements
i've never heard of "moving by light & energy" the elements
even such moving as referenced is quite envolved (ex c/nc programmer here certified in 83')
the one's i'm aware of aren't a hand-held gizmo...it's a very precise laboratory piece of equipment
from what i recall too
laser technology wasn't cheap then...is it affordable now?
the set-up itself was quite involved too that involves alot of power consumption

so if anyone here...has in fact...seen a laser used in doctoring
or someone who owns one that has applicable use
please inform me or pm me...i promise to keep a secret
>>

It has actually been done quite extensively. Think of the advantage of removing a discrete hairline on a proof coin upping the grade a point or two, or making something obvious become inconspicuous to the human eye. I was talking with a knowledgeable second generation dealer who said something about coins coming back from the grading service with a warning not to send them more lasered coins. Anything that can be done to make significant profits resulting in higher grades, has been tried.

lasvegasteddy · June 19, 2012 2:26PM

"It has actually been done quite extensively. Think of the advantage of removing a discrete hairline on a proof coin upping the grade a point or two, or making something obvious become inconspicuous to the human eye. I was talking with a knowledgeable second generation dealer who said something about coins coming back from the grading service with a warning not to send them more lasered coins. Anything that can be done to make significant profits resulting in higher grades, has been tried. "

was kinda hoping for some depth in the points i addressed...
a true laser for shop use can only etch a surface or burn/cut any element
a true laser can't raise a sunken hairline
true it could etch a raised die polish line off
precise movement becomes an issue though...i'm an artist ok...eye to hand control isn't a weak point of mine...
"i would not even attempt any freehand address of any kind on such a minute work area" and i'm confident ok

moving metal...i maybe a retired machinist...but moving metal by a laser...just does not compute..."laser=energy induced into light"...there's physics here of moving by "light and energy" that doesn't add up

i seriously would love "an actual fact based reply...or pm in secret"
who with m.e. type of background would care to get technical here
whose seen one?<<<<not here-say please
whose actually seen one used by a numismatic/doctor?
okay so price is way down on laser systems as they can be had for $3-4k (stunned a lil)

it's just a loose tossed non-factual proclamation until someone actually steps up here...i lived a very technical past life (why i despise realone)...lasering in numismatics...just does not compute...when refering to "moving metal"...etching is very clear and practicle

here's a video on industrial laser work...
industrial laser video

UNCOnly · June 19, 2012 11:40PM

<< I am seeing more and more PCGS Genuine coins with this notation. How is this being done? >>

I think the better question is WHY is this being done.

The answer is simple; people think it increases the value when actually it hurts the value.

RevDrBlimber · June 20, 2012 12:04PM

Here are some synonyms for smooth:

"Definition: level, unwrinkled; flowing
"Synonyms: bland, continuous, creamy, easy, effortless, equable, even, flat, fluent, fluid, flush, frictionless, gentle, glassy, glossy, hairless, horizontal, invariable, lustrous, mild, mirrorlike, monotonous, peaceful, plain, planate, plane, polished, quiet, regular, rhythmic, rippleless, serene, shaven, shiny, silky, sleek, soft, soothing, stable, steady, still, tranquil, unbroken, undeviating, undisturbed, uneventful, uniform, uninterrupted, unruffled, untroubled, unvarying, velvety
"Antonyms: broken, coarse, intermittent, irregular, rough, uneven, wrinkled"
http://thesaurus.com/browse/smooth

I don't have a problem with a generic term like this. I had a Bust half that graded AU "smoothed". It sold. If the agent of the smoothing hadn't tampered with it, it might have graded BU.

PCGS Genuine Surfaces Smoothed

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