<< <i>Is it just me or are the minor coins not proofs? >>
I'd be fine with that to do you know how much a circulation strike of a 3 cent silver is worth? a whole lot more then a proof, it would be worth by it self more then I paid for the whole set. Unfortunitly if you had seen the coins in hand you would know these are all proofs its easy to tell they all have mirrors, deep strikes ( 1872 was known for have weakly struck coins across the board), and they don't look like BS at all. Even though their are so many doubters here I would go as far a to say these are a original set. Remeber I have these coins in my own hands they all have close to the same look and where in a capital plastics holder circa 1940's ( my local dealer had a shop here since 1965 don't known how long hes been into coins though gave me time era). Previous owner had them for 20 years rewcieved them in auction in said capital plastics holder.
Anyways some of the minor coins are worth more if they are business strikes anyways, can't remeber which ones but I know definity the 3cS with only 1000 circulation strikes and 950 proofs strike the proof is around 1500-1900 the BS worth 10,000+ if so, so ask me if I care. It will work out for me no matter what. I already did the math on lowest grades to 65 >>
Hello,
You believe that holder was from the 1940's?? Believe me, TDN has a good idea what he is saying
Best, Eric
Edit to add: I just spoke to Capital plastics and they can't say for certain but think it highly unlikely! Perhaps you are speaking of a different holder? It was guessed that the holder shown in your auction pics could not be earlier then the 1960's and perhaps even the 70's.
You believe that holder was from the 1940's?? Believe me, TDN has a good idea what he is saying
Best, Eric >>
Oh I believe TDN is very knowledgeable, he has one on the finest collection around. That said yes I do belive the holder is from the 40's, TDN did not comment on the holder but the coins. The subject at hand he stated that some of the minor coins do not look proof. Well to be honest I thought the same thing, when I first looked at them some being so dark and hard to see the mirrors. So I did a lot of research and found as stated above that some of the BS for this year like the 3cS are so low in mintage that two things one I would be more lucky if they are BS, two because of those odds they are more likely proofs. I also looked at lots of BS and proofs of this year that I could find, thank you internet, and found the fields match the proof look, but also that 1872 Phildephia coins where struck very weakly and like I stated above these are struck very well and very sharp edges on lettering.
Thanks Magikbilly for the comments I've been wondering when you would join this thread
ps Magikbilly what do you collect? Just wondering since I think we'll be doing a lot this in the future, I think I'm gonna keep doing more 19th century raw proof threads as I think I found what I like to collect finally.
<< <i>[Edit to add: I just spoke to Capital plastics and they can't say for certain but think it highly unlikely! Perhaps you are speaking of a different holder? It was guessed that the holder shown in your auction pics could not be earlier then the 1960's and perhaps even the 70's. >>
Give me a break what would some phone rep know? Did you show them a picture? I think a dealer thats owned a shop since 1965 would know alot more about coin holders then a phone rep. who's probably only been with the company max 20 years, but I even doubt that. I call business's all time and get people who answer the phone and don't know squat. .
I have been in this thread. I know TDN was not speaking to the holder. I was. If the holder is demonstrably not from 1940's what does that suggest about any other data supplied by the same source?
What do I collect?
1939 New York World's Fair memorabilia, posters etc. buy/sell as well 1939/40 unpublished b/w prints and Kodachrome slides of same (some published by Yale for the National Building Museum recently in a book I did restorations for as well) buy/sell as well Unpublished candid photographs of the Cunard RMS Mauretania and Lusitania buy/sell as well Salvage/Scrap items from the same 2 liners above Scroll down a touch to see some Prime vintage Hollywood autographs buy/sell as well Parts of buildings and exhibits from the 1939 New York World's Fair (some recently displayed in Washington DC) - latest addition is 3 cars designed by Norman Bel Geddes for GM Futurama I authenticate (and "de-authenticate") bits of liners - here is a bit I just placed into a museum in the UK: Mauretania Lounge 1907 part 1 Mauretania Lounge 1907 part 2 I research and write some as well: Farewell to the Tyne I also provide images and restorations for many books, articles etc. Consultation, design etc..
I will be dropping this stuff and returning to oil painting in copper with earth pigments and semi-precious stones, gold, ivory etc. I have not shown in a museum deliberately since 1986. Time to get back to work. I have killed 10 years with the above ventures.
Magikbilly, what about coins? I looked at some of the stuff you worked with and its very nice, but I know next to nothing about such items. It looks like a lot of history though and thats something that intesrest me no matter what the subject of content. Also check my post above your thats how I feel about the holder. Unless you can find me a concrete time line for materials used for the holders, I gotta go with someone whos seen alot of these and that I know has for sure been in this business for the amount of time to make such statements. Not just some phone rep, who knows how long they've even worked there.
ps I hope PCGS give me a finest known on one of these coins of mine, but I doubt it. That would be nice though
Hah! Yes, Pr 1937-1942. Good point. I will get you a date on that holder. Until then, I have never seen one from the 1940's. All the stuff up there I collect involves many disciplines - and to my eye that holder, from design, font and materials, screams 1960's-1970's at best. For starters, I think Capital Plastics didn't start production until 1952.
Well, it seems they had cardboard inserts at first, not 3 ply acrylic, and this is C. early 1960's. I just looked at some of those and they are radically different - I would guess yours will be from the 1970's or later. Will keep you posted.
I think this is an older holder, due to the metal screws and radiused corners. Every Capital Plastics holder I've ever seen has plastic screws and square corners. Although I have never made a study of such holders, and defer to anyone who has, I think this holder is from the 1950s or early 1960s.
<< <i>I think this is an older holder, due to the metal screws and radiused corners. Every Capital Plastics holder I've ever seen has plastic screws and square corners. Although I have never made a study of such holders, and defer to anyone who has, I think this holder is from the 1950s or early 1960s. >>
Hi Bayard1908,
I recall rounded corners and aluminum pins in the 1970's and 1980's. Here is a late 1960's catalog and and a holder too. Member WaterSport might be able to date your "older holder", but if they are using ""snowy white display boards with titles and descriptive information printed in black ink" for inserts here, C. late 1960's, I would be surprised to learn they were using a more modern font with 3-ply acrylic design before that, as well as the stamped "gold leafed" lettering. The people at CP that I spoke to, for the moment, don't seem to know much so I am rounding up this information myself; I will hear from someone who can hopefully answer these questions tomorrow. The other insert option it seems was soft foam where you could not see the reverses. In comparison, to me anyway, Michigan's holder doesn't look quite so vintage. Capital still sells aluminum screws and pins although I can't say what they look like at the moment. Although both are Comet holders, note the different construction, font, edges, insert etc:
I just added a bunch of info in the post b4 Bruce's about these holders. If the holder is very much not what it was said to be it casts a shadow on the rest of the story IMHO.
Well I also noticed that the capital plastics ad you showed mentions plastic being the screw type and that the foam center is optional. Forgive me if you mentioned that and I some how missed it. What year is that holder in your post.
As far as the story goes the coins came from any auction 20 years ago in the holder, thats from the seller I bought it from. The 40's era statement is actually from my a local dealer with a shop since 1965 as stated before he made no other assumptions about the coins themselves. I have been trying to get old documentiation from the gut I purchased it from. He's away on bussiness and I'm waiting for him to come back ans tell me if he has any documents pretaining to the auction. If the set comes back all proof from PCGS are you gonna believe it? I don't really myself have any doubt they are proofs the pictures are very dark for coins compared to coins in hand except for the 10c, H10c, and 3cS they are dark, but they are also small and I can see them toning over more because of less space to cover. They all have good mirrors including the 3cS, except the sheild nickel and the 3 cent nickel, but I've looked at lots of these at shows and also online and the fields look the same as the other proofs I've seen.
Edited to add that Jaco bought out Capital plastics and now owns them, I heard capital plastics started in the 30's but that also could be wrong. Also note it is not unusal for a coin shop to have lots of old capital plastics holders. I have only seen plastic screws except twice and both times the where with old 19th century proofs coins.
Yes, I know J bought out CP. I should have a date for your holder tomorrow. It is something I always wondered about - when did CP start? The catalog and holder I posted is C.1965. I would be pretty surprised if they were producing acrylic holders in the 1930's - the material was created in 1928 and only available starting in 1933 as Plexiglass. Your holder appears to be acrylic - earlier holders pre 1965 or so were made of polystyrene and felt different (softer yet more brittle FWIW) from the later material from what I recall as a kid. As I said, CP still sells the aluminum screws. I misunderstood who said what about the age of the holder - but it is good information so I will collect it.
Yeah magik I tried to call CP just now and no answer once past automated part, I guess they are closed now. All I know is these coins don't look anything like BS of that year, but do look like proofs. Like I said no doubt in my mind at all, I've been looking at 1872's across all denominations since I got these in both proof and BS just to try and get a idea of how they would grade. I think I've learned enough about this year to at the least these are in fact all proofs.
ps I should of used a wider scope of prices on the 3cS BS but I couldn't remember I just knew they where worth more then proofs and remember seeing upwards to $10,000+ which now that I've looked is at 66 , but the 65 is around $6,500 and I think the 64 was $3,900. I was tried up on the phone while I was replying and used a broad assumption which I should have not done.
You Suck! Awarded 6/2008- 1901-O Micro O Morgan, 8/2008- 1878 VAM-123 Morgan, 9/2022 1888-O VAM-1B3 H8 Morgan | Senior Regional Representative- ANACS Coin Grading. Posted opinions on coins are my own, and are not an official ANACS opinion.
I just looked at my pictures again and boy they suck. I did not ask for true views, but maybe I'll have them imaged when I get them back. I can now see why you think the minor coins are not proof. All photos where taking in capital plastics holder under natural lighting no extra sources just the rays of the sun shining through the window. Some are even blurry and not straight on. To my defense I was just trying to get some better photos up and went to great lengths to do that for your viewing pleasure.
Edited to say DDO comment is why I went back to look again since I don't have coins right now, Not seeing the DDO can you point it out?
Also the rounded corners of the holder I have I can't find any others like it all have squared corners and also seem cheap. This holder was very well made which also brings me to believe its older.
The holder that the 1872 proof set resided in when michiganboy purchased same may not be a Capital Holder. It may have been made by another company.
I have an identical holder containing proof Lincoln Cents from 1950-1975. It has metal screws, rounded corners, recessed lettering on the top of the middle white layer of plastic that is embossed in gold and two outer layers of clear plastic. I bought the holder at a local coin show for a few dollars as it was used. My guess is that the holder was made in the 1970's (or maybe late 60's) and that it may have been a custom order. I have not seen any other holder like the 1950-1975 proof cent holder. In fact I have never seen any holder of the same style until I looked at the one in this thread containing the 1872 proof set (I have seen some five coin capital style holders with small metal screws that have three layers of plastic that are much thinner and of lower quality than your standard Capital Holder and of the holder containing the 1872 proof set).
I also have a Capital Holder, plus original box and tissue the holder came in, for circulation strike Roosevelt Dimes with holes for 1946-1964 (48 holes); and surprisingly 8 additional holes for 1965, 1965 D, 1966, 1966 D, 1967, 1967 D, 1968 and 1968 D dimes. With holes for 1965 D, 1966 D and 1967 D dimes, this holder had to have been made prior to the time that the mint announced that no coins dated from and after 1965 would have mint marks. The dime holder looks like your usual Capital Holder (plastic screws and 90 degree square corners).
Does anyone have any holders that look similar to the holder for the 1872 proof set? Further does anyone have any information on what company made this type of holder and when this type of holder was produced?
Yeah I don't know either might not be capital plastics. What I do know is its three parts about a quarter inch thick each, aluminum screws, not sure material but very sturdy, Letters engraved maybe by hand due to 2C says bronze with what looks like a Q, but in hand looks like a accident slip then gold painted. Only thing else I got is my local dealer said other time he seen holders like this they also contained 19 century proofs.
Sanction was the penny holder dated from 1950-75 or just the coins?
FWIW, Capital Plastics already identified Michgan's holder as a Captal Plastics Comet holder. I should have some date information soon.
Best, Eric >>
Nope incorrect the comet style is part of the snap together production line. Unless you did not mean to put comet in there someone is wrong, but is close because of the rounded edges of the comet. Keep looking Magik!
FWIW, Capital Plastics already identified Michgan's holder as a Captal Plastics Comet holder. I should have some date information soon.
Best, Eric >>
Nope incorrect the comet style is part of the snap together production line. Unless you did not mean to put comet in there someone is wrong, but is close because of the rounded edges of the comet. Keep looking Magik! >>
Perhaps, but the catalog I posted shows a Comet with screws so... You holder was ID's by CP as a Comet holder from the auction photo. Better information tomorrow. Let's not all call and write them or we will drive them nuts IMHO. I'm not sure they were thrilled to see the 1960's catalog after they said CP holders were always 3-ply acrylic.
Yeah but like I said comet is part of the snap together holders but has screws. They made these so you could fill it as you go then put screws in once complete, I also found the C series has round corners and is not snap together with screws and has same style layout as mine, so check that out as a lead. Ask for a manager or someone hows been with the company for a long time. Being that Jaco took them over I'm not sure just anybody there will even know what they are talking about , I see this all the time with businesses. People just can't seem give correct answers nowadays.
Yeah I seen that DDO online article before too, problem is my coin die is not rotated my pictures are in one shot I held the coin slab to make it straight in another I left it and otherwise I just don't see the DDO on mine. In the article I see it on the circle in the center of the shield on mine well the photos are kinda poor of that one and the coin is obviously not with me to look at.
<< <i>Yeah but like I said comet is part of the snap together holders but has screws. They made these so you could fill it as you go then put screws in once complete, I also found the C series has round corners and is not snap together with screws and has same style layout as mine, so check that out as a lead. Ask for a manager or someone hows been with the company for a long time. Being that Jaco took them over I'm not sure just anybody there will even know what they are talking about , I see this all the time with businesses. People just can't seem give correct answers nowadays. >>
Hi Michigan,
I will be in conact with the correct person LOL. The information you are giving is I believe about the more recent Comet which is now discontinued. I was surprised to see that chipboard insert still around.
All I know is comet is listed as a snap together style, its not listed any where else and if you look up holder online that contain the comet designation they are snap together with screws. I don't see any other place where comet is listed as a style choice except in the snap together line. As I stated before the C series is the same layout without the snap together part so to me that makes more sense.
<< <i>I just looked at my pictures again and boy they suck. I did not ask for true views, but maybe I'll have them imaged when I get them back. I can now see why you think the minor coins are not proof. All photos where taking in capital plastics holder under natural lighting no extra sources just the rays of the sun shining through the window. Some are even blurry and not straight on. To my defense I was just trying to get some better photos up and went to great lengths to do that for your viewing pleasure.
Edited to say DDO comment is why I went back to look again since I don't have coins right now, Not seeing the DDO can you point it out?
Also the rounded corners of the holder I have I can't find any others like it all have squared corners and also seem cheap. This holder was very well made which also brings me to believe its older. >>
Check out the link from majikbilly. Your coin shows doubling in the classic shield areas. The annulet is doubled, and the horizontal shield lines overlap the vertical ones:
You Suck! Awarded 6/2008- 1901-O Micro O Morgan, 8/2008- 1878 VAM-123 Morgan, 9/2022 1888-O VAM-1B3 H8 Morgan | Senior Regional Representative- ANACS Coin Grading. Posted opinions on coins are my own, and are not an official ANACS opinion.
Also keep in mind that a rotated die can be a temporary thing.
You Suck! Awarded 6/2008- 1901-O Micro O Morgan, 8/2008- 1878 VAM-123 Morgan, 9/2022 1888-O VAM-1B3 H8 Morgan | Senior Regional Representative- ANACS Coin Grading. Posted opinions on coins are my own, and are not an official ANACS opinion.
Well, there may be nobody I can contact at Jayco who can answer anything before 2005. I spoke with the oldest sales rep there I believe. I would not be surprised if they trashed all their records at that time (or before). If Con Ed can literally put records of their participation in the 1939 NY World's Fair into a dumpster, I don't see why Jayco would do anything differently. People/entities often do not see the value of things beyond their vantage. It is disturbing to see the same sort of problem with these CP holders and US Pr set packaging from the 1930's
Best wishes with the grades - looking forward to the post.
Thanks Magikbilly, I had a feeling that these records/information would be hard to find. I think best bet is asking the oldest coin shop owning dealers what they think about the holder. Maybe I'll take it one more shop and ask what they think.
<< <i>Thanks Magikbilly, I had a feeling that these records/information would be hard to find. I think best bet is asking the oldest coin shop owning dealers what they think about the holder. Maybe I'll take it one more shop and ask what they think. >>
Hi Michigan,
Sure. It was not surprising but unfortunate. I would have to say the collective information given here, by others, is more valuable than that of any single dealer. I would start a poll thread, asking for votes based on experience and observation with the choices 1940's, 1950's, 1960's, 1970's. Using my experience and observation you know my opinion. This look exactly like stuff I saw for sale in the 70's and early 80's. Of couse none of this has anything to do with the story or coins. As I said yesterday - I misunderstood this "1940's" opinion came with part of the story of the set. Keep us posted!
Well I found out that capital plastics was founded in 1952, incorporated in 1960 , and purchased in June 2005 by Jaco. So the holder if Capital plastics could be no older then 1952, so being 40's is out unless produced by another company. I actually think this is capital plastics still, being as I know of no other makers of such types of coin cases. Now at least we have a timeline Capital plastics holders, note info taken from here
<< <i>Well I found out that capital plastics was founded in 1952, incorporated in 1960 , and purchased in June 2005 by Jaco. So the holder if Capital plastics could be no older then 1952, so being 40's is out unless produced by another company. I actually think this is capital plastics still, being as I know of no other makers of such types of coin cases. Now at least we have a timeline Capital plastics holders, note info taken from here >>
Hi Michigan,
Yes, that's the same Bill I heard from. I mentioned to you 1952 yesterday - yes, the 1940's is indeed out. I also believe it is Capital Plastics as they did manage to identify your holder as their product yesterday. There was mention of another maker as well in yesterdays posts - I will reread. I still think member WaterSport could help here from the posts I read. Is he still here? The polystyrene material and what seems to be acrylic in yours, the construction...the aluminum pins that are still sold...the font changes on yours...I am still saying 1970's at best.
<< <i>Well I found out that capital plastics was founded in 1952, incorporated in 1960 , and purchased in June 2005 by Jaco. So the holder if Capital plastics could be no older then 1952, so being 40's is out unless produced by another company. I actually think this is capital plastics still, being as I know of no other makers of such types of coin cases. Now at least we have a timeline Capital plastics holders, note info taken from here >>
Hi Michigan,
Yes, that's the same Bill I heard from. I mentioned to you 1952 yesterday - yes, the 1940's is indeed out. I also believe it is Capital Plastics as they did manage to identify your holder as their product yesterday. There was mention of another maker as well in yesterdays posts - I will reread. I still think member WaterSport could help here from the posts I read. Is he still here? The polystyrene material and what seems to be acrylic in yours, the construction...the aluminum pins that are still sold...the font changes on yours...I am still saying 1970's at best.
Best wishes, Eric >>
Well I reread your post can't find you mention 1952 anywhere(now I see it, never mind ). Only thing else I'm still waiting to see if prior owner still has any paperwork from auction when he bought it so I can do more background research on the coins provenance.
<< <i>Well I reread your post can't find you mention 1952 anywhere. Only thing else I'm still waiting to see if prior owner still has any paperwork from auction when he bought it so I can do more background research on the coins provenance. >>
Hi Michigan,
Here: Tuesday May 01, 2012 11:05 AM "For starters, I think Capital Plastics didn't start production until 1952." I still suggest contacting WaterSport if he is active here. Looking forward to the grades!
My guess is the metal screw type is pre 1960 as its different looking than most pre plastic screw types I have seen. When Capital was loosing business, the cheap comet holders were made. They are real crap still today. Many will have cracks from the center screw.
WS
Proud recipient of the coveted PCGS Forum "You Suck" Award Thursday July 19, 2007 11:33 PM and December 30th, 2011 at 8:50 PM.
Thanks watersport, yeah I actually pulled out the only other capital plastics holder I had with metal screws and they are smaller then the ones seen on the 1872 proof set holder. I still don't know the date on the other holder either, so I still don't know.
Well they finally made it out of the registered mail hole and now comes the wait at PCGS. I not worried about any other then the dollar coming back in a circulated grade but roadrunner said in this thread he thinks it will come back in a uncirculated grade. Maybe it will, Maybe it won't I hoping to take number one spot on the registery for proof 1872 set with these coins though, I got number 4 spot in 1874 proof set, with one coin! Now that surprised me since I didn't look at the other sets before I added my one coin, only one complete set thats active.
<< <i>Well they finally made it out of the registered mail hole and now comes the wait at PCGS. I not worried about any other then the dollar coming back in a circulated grade but roadrunner said in this thread he thinks it will come back in a uncirculated grade. Maybe it will, Maybe it won't I hoping to take number one spot on the registery for proof 1872 set with these coins though, I got number 4 spot in 1874 proof set, with one coin! Now that surprised me since I didn't look at the other sets before I added my one coin, only one complete set thats active. >>
I wouldn't put as much emphasis on being a certain number in the registry, not only because you can be fooling yourself with the number status but because of the fact that you can be number 4 spot with only one coin, now how ridiculous is that and how fleeting will that end up being. Just concern yourself with obtaining material that you like and is as original as possible and then you will be bullet proof but all this nonsense of the registry is just that imho. >>
I was not putting that much emhasis on the registry, why else would I mention being able to take a #4 spot with one coin. You don't think I now there are coins why better then mine or others not even in the registry. I'm just trying to have fun, thats why I collect. I'm not a dealer or investor, I'm a collector. This is what I like and if I want to put my coins in the registry and enjoy the glory of it so what.
<< <i>Well they finally made it out of the registered mail hole and now comes the wait at PCGS. I not worried about any other then the dollar coming back in a circulated grade but roadrunner said in this thread he thinks it will come back in a uncirculated grade. Maybe it will, Maybe it won't I hoping to take number one spot on the registery for proof 1872 set with these coins though, I got number 4 spot in 1874 proof set, with one coin! Now that surprised me since I didn't look at the other sets before I added my one coin, only one complete set that's active. >>
Based on that original looking lower grade 1871 set posted earlier I'd say getting grades of 61 or higher on all the graded coins is realistic. That 1871 quarter shows the same reverse high point issues as your 1872 and that was graded NGC PF61.
<< <i>Well they finally made it out of the registered mail hole and now comes the wait at PCGS. I not worried about any other then the dollar coming back in a circulated grade but roadrunner said in this thread he thinks it will come back in a uncirculated grade. Maybe it will, Maybe it won't I hoping to take number one spot on the registery for proof 1872 set with these coins though, I got number 4 spot in 1874 proof set, with one coin! Now that surprised me since I didn't look at the other sets before I added my one coin, only one complete set that's active. >>
Based on that original looking lower grade 1871 set posted earlier I'd say getting grades of 61 or higher on all the graded coins is realistic. That 1871 quarter shows the same reverse high point issues as your 1872 and that was graded NGC PF61. >>
I just pulled up that 71 set and the major coins also have a fair amount of hits in the fields and display the rub on the knee kinda like mine. The only coins in my set that has marks are the dollar ( the one right across the knee) and the shield has minor mark on the shield otherwise no hairlines or hits.
Approaching 200 and the coins have not been graded yet.
Various topics have come up in this thread and have generated some good discussion.
After the coins are graded and returned to michiganboy hopefully some high quality photos of the coins can be taken and posted, along with the grades. If that happens I would think this thread would easily break the 250 barrier and head towards 300.
I also hope that someone can definitively state what company manufactured the holder that the 1872 proof set was contained in. As stated before I have one that looks just like the pictured holder. I pulled it out recently and took a close look at it. It is identical to the pictured holder, except that it contains holes for the 28 proof and SMS Lincoln Cents produced between 1950 and 1975 (holes for these 26 years, plus two extra holes for 1960 and 1970 to accommodate the large and small date varieties produced those years). I do not think either holder is a Capital Holder. Neither holder has the name "Capital" embossed on it (as holders produced by Capital do); the three layers of plastic are thicker than the three layers of plastic in holders produced by Capital; and the holders have the LARGE metal screws.
After the proof half cent mechanical error thread that OP said they randomly true viewed his coin even though it supposedly wasn't on the submission I've been thinking that would be cool if they did mine. Otherwise I'm gonna have to find someone at a local show to image them or find out more about coin photography. Some people can make coins pop out with all the colors and bells and whistles, mine well they just look dark or out of focus, etc...
Also to note my coins already show up in the orders page and they just got them today, last coin took three days to even show up in the system. Now I figure regular submission take 15-16 days turnaround grades might be up as soon as the 18th.
Fall 2026 National Battlefield Coin Show September 11 & 12, 2026 at the Eisenhower Hotel Ballroom, Gettysburg, PA. Early Bird passes Thursday September 10, 2026 from Noon to 5pm $25 each. WWW.AmericasCoinShows.com
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>Is it just me or are the minor coins not proofs? >>
I'd be fine with that to do you know how much a circulation strike of a 3 cent silver is worth? a whole lot more then a proof, it would be worth by it self more then I paid for the whole set. Unfortunitly if you had seen the coins in hand you would know these are all proofs its easy to tell they all have mirrors, deep strikes ( 1872 was known for have weakly struck coins across the board), and they don't look like BS at all. Even though their are so many doubters here I would go as far a to say these are a original set. Remeber I have these coins in my own hands they all have close to the same look and where in a capital plastics holder circa 1940's ( my local dealer had a shop here since 1965 don't known how long hes been into coins though gave me time era). Previous owner had them for 20 years rewcieved them in auction in said capital plastics holder.
Anyways some of the minor coins are worth more if they are business strikes anyways, can't remeber which ones but I know definity the 3cS with only 1000 circulation strikes and 950 proofs strike the proof is around 1500-1900 the BS worth 10,000+ if so, so ask me if I care. It will work out for me no matter what. I already did the math on lowest grades to 65 >>
Hello,
You believe that holder was from the 1940's?? Believe me, TDN has a good idea what he is saying
Best,
Eric
Edit to add: I just spoke to Capital plastics and they can't say for certain but think it highly unlikely! Perhaps you are speaking of a different holder? It was guessed that the holder shown in your auction pics could not be earlier then the 1960's and perhaps even the 70's.
You believe that holder was from the 1940's?? Believe me, TDN has a good idea what he is saying
Best,
Eric >>
Oh I believe TDN is very knowledgeable, he has one on the finest collection around. That said yes I do belive the holder is from the 40's, TDN did not comment on the holder but the coins. The subject at hand he stated that some of the minor coins do not look proof. Well to be honest I thought the same thing, when I first looked at them some being so dark and hard to see the mirrors. So I did a lot of research and found as stated above that some of the BS for this year like the 3cS are so low in mintage that two things one I would be more lucky if they are BS, two because of those odds they are more likely proofs. I also looked at lots of BS and proofs of this year that I could find, thank you internet, and found the fields match the proof look, but also that 1872 Phildephia coins where struck very weakly and like I stated above these are struck very well and very sharp edges on lettering.
Thanks Magikbilly for the comments I've been wondering when you would join this thread
ps Magikbilly what do you collect? Just wondering since I think we'll be doing a lot this in the future, I think I'm gonna keep doing more 19th century raw proof threads as I think I found what I like to collect finally.
edited for spelling
type2,CCHunter.
<< <i>
<< <i>[Edit to add: I just spoke to Capital plastics and they can't say for certain but think it highly unlikely! Perhaps you are speaking of a different holder? It was guessed that the holder shown in your auction pics could not be earlier then the 1960's and perhaps even the 70's. >>
Give me a break what would some phone rep know? Did you show them a picture? I think a dealer thats owned a shop since 1965 would know alot more about coin holders then a phone rep. who's probably only been with the company max 20 years, but I even doubt that. I call business's all time and get people who answer the phone and don't know squat. .
type2,CCHunter.
I have been in this thread.
What do I collect?
1939 New York World's Fair memorabilia, posters etc. buy/sell as well
1939/40 unpublished b/w prints and Kodachrome slides of same (some published by Yale for the National Building Museum recently in a book I did restorations for as well) buy/sell as well
Unpublished candid photographs of the Cunard RMS Mauretania and Lusitania buy/sell as well
Salvage/Scrap items from the same 2 liners above Scroll down a touch to see some
Prime vintage Hollywood autographs buy/sell as well
Parts of buildings and exhibits from the 1939 New York World's Fair (some recently displayed in Washington DC) - latest addition is 3 cars designed by Norman Bel Geddes for GM Futurama
I authenticate (and "de-authenticate") bits of liners - here is a bit I just placed into a museum in the UK: Mauretania Lounge 1907 part 1
Mauretania Lounge 1907 part 2
I research and write some as well: Farewell to the Tyne
I also provide images and restorations for many books, articles etc. Consultation, design etc..
I will be dropping this stuff and returning to oil painting in copper with earth pigments and semi-precious stones, gold, ivory etc. I have not shown in a museum deliberately since 1986. Time to get back to work. I have killed 10 years with the above ventures.
A lot more!
Best wishes,
Eric
ps I hope PCGS give me a finest known on one of these coins of mine, but I doubt it. That would be nice though
type2,CCHunter.
Best wishes,
Eric
Well, it seems they had cardboard inserts at first, not 3 ply acrylic, and this is C. early 1960's. I just looked at some of those and they are radically different - I would guess yours will be from the 1970's or later. Will keep you posted.
Best,
Eric
<< <i>I think this is an older holder, due to the metal screws and radiused corners. Every Capital Plastics holder I've ever seen has plastic screws and square corners. Although I have never made a study of such holders, and defer to anyone who has, I think this holder is from the 1950s or early 1960s. >>
Hi Bayard1908,
I recall rounded corners and aluminum pins in the 1970's and 1980's. Here is a late 1960's catalog and and a holder too. Member WaterSport might be able to date your "older holder", but if they are using ""snowy white display boards with titles and descriptive information printed in black ink" for inserts here, C. late 1960's, I would be surprised to learn they were using a more modern font with 3-ply acrylic design before that, as well as the stamped "gold leafed" lettering. The people at CP that I spoke to, for the moment, don't seem to know much so I am rounding up this information myself; I will hear from someone who can hopefully answer these questions tomorrow. The other insert option it seems was soft foam where you could not see the reverses. In comparison, to me anyway, Michigan's holder doesn't look quite so vintage. Capital still sells aluminum screws and pins although I can't say what they look like at the moment. Although both are Comet holders, note the different construction, font, edges, insert etc:
Best wishes,
Eric
Looking like that more like $1500 but as you say still better than the proof
<< <i>the BS worth 10,000+ >>
I think we all hope this is not literally true!
Best,
Eric
I just added a bunch of info in the post b4 Bruce's about these holders. If the holder is very much not what it was said to be it casts a shadow on the rest of the story IMHO.
As far as the story goes the coins came from any auction 20 years ago in the holder, thats from the seller I bought it from. The 40's era statement is actually from my a local dealer with a shop since 1965 as stated before he made no other assumptions about the coins themselves. I have been trying to get old documentiation from the gut I purchased it from. He's away on bussiness and I'm waiting for him to come back ans tell me if he has any documents pretaining to the auction. If the set comes back all proof from PCGS are you gonna believe it? I don't really myself have any doubt they are proofs the pictures are very dark for coins compared to coins in hand except for the 10c, H10c, and 3cS they are dark, but they are also small and I can see them toning over more because of less space to cover. They all have good mirrors including the 3cS, except the sheild nickel and the 3 cent nickel, but I've looked at lots of these at shows and also online and the fields look the same as the other proofs I've seen.
Edited to add that Jaco bought out Capital plastics and now owns them, I heard capital plastics started in the 30's but that also could be wrong. Also note it is not unusal for a coin shop to have lots of old capital plastics holders. I have only seen plastic screws except twice and both times the where with old 19th century proofs coins.
type2,CCHunter.
Yes, I know J bought out CP. I should have a date for your holder tomorrow. It is something I always wondered about - when did CP start? The catalog and holder I posted is C.1965. I would be pretty surprised if they were producing acrylic holders in the 1930's - the material was created in 1928 and only available starting in 1933 as Plexiglass. Your holder appears to be acrylic - earlier holders pre 1965 or so were made of polystyrene and felt different (softer yet more brittle FWIW) from the later material from what I recall as a kid. As I said, CP still sells the aluminum screws. I misunderstood who said what about the age of the holder - but it is good information so I will collect it.
Best,
Eric
ps I should of used a wider scope of prices on the 3cS BS but I couldn't remember I just knew they where worth more then proofs and remember seeing upwards to $10,000+ which now that I've looked is at 66 , but the 65 is around $6,500 and I think the 64 was $3,900. I was tried up on the phone while I was replying and used a broad assumption which I should have not done.
type2,CCHunter.
Edited to say DDO comment is why I went back to look again since I don't have coins right now, Not seeing the DDO can you point it out?
Also the rounded corners of the holder I have I can't find any others like it all have squared corners and also seem cheap. This holder was very well made which also brings me to believe its older.
type2,CCHunter.
I have an identical holder containing proof Lincoln Cents from 1950-1975. It has metal screws, rounded corners, recessed lettering on the top of the middle white layer of plastic that is embossed in gold and two outer layers of clear plastic. I bought the holder at a local coin show for a few dollars as it was used. My guess is that the holder was made in the 1970's (or maybe late 60's) and that it may have been a custom order. I have not seen any other holder like the 1950-1975 proof cent holder. In fact I have never seen any holder of the same style until I looked at the one in this thread containing the 1872 proof set (I have seen some five coin capital style holders with small metal screws that have three layers of plastic that are much thinner and of lower quality than your standard Capital Holder and of the holder containing the 1872 proof set).
I also have a Capital Holder, plus original box and tissue the holder came in, for circulation strike Roosevelt Dimes with holes for 1946-1964 (48 holes); and surprisingly 8 additional holes for 1965, 1965 D, 1966, 1966 D, 1967, 1967 D, 1968 and 1968 D dimes. With holes for 1965 D, 1966 D and 1967 D dimes, this holder had to have been made prior to the time that the mint announced that no coins dated from and after 1965 would have mint marks. The dime holder looks like your usual Capital Holder (plastic screws and 90 degree square corners).
Does anyone have any holders that look similar to the holder for the 1872 proof set? Further does anyone have any information on what company made this type of holder and when this type of holder was produced?
Sanction was the penny holder dated from 1950-75 or just the coins?
type2,CCHunter.
FWIW, Capital Plastics already identified Michgan's holder as a Captal Plastics Comet holder. I should have some date information soon.
Best,
Eric
<< <i>Hi,
FWIW, Capital Plastics already identified Michgan's holder as a Captal Plastics Comet holder. I should have some date information soon.
Best,
Eric >>
Nope incorrect the comet style is part of the snap together production line. Unless you did not mean to put comet in there someone is wrong, but is close because of the rounded edges of the comet. Keep looking Magik!
type2,CCHunter.
<< <i>
<< <i>Hi,
FWIW, Capital Plastics already identified Michgan's holder as a Captal Plastics Comet holder. I should have some date information soon.
Best,
Eric >>
Nope incorrect the comet style is part of the snap together production line. Unless you did not mean to put comet in there someone is wrong, but is close because of the rounded edges of the comet. Keep looking Magik! >>
Perhaps, but the catalog I posted shows a Comet with screws so... You holder was ID's by CP as a Comet holder from the auction photo. Better information tomorrow. Let's not all call and write them or we will drive them nuts IMHO. I'm not sure they were thrilled to see the 1960's catalog after they said CP holders were always 3-ply acrylic.
Best wishes,
Eric
Saw this online - you were asking about the DDO: One variety of 1872 5C Proof DDO Rotated Dies S2-1015.2 F-06 FS-107
Yeah I seen that DDO online article before too, problem is my coin die is not rotated my pictures are in one shot I held the coin slab to make it straight in another I left it and otherwise I just don't see the DDO on mine. In the article I see it on the circle in the center of the shield on mine well the photos are kinda poor of that one and the coin is obviously not with me to look at.
type2,CCHunter.
<< <i>Yeah but like I said comet is part of the snap together holders but has screws. They made these so you could fill it as you go then put screws in once complete, I also found the C series has round corners and is not snap together with screws and has same style layout as mine, so check that out as a lead. Ask for a manager or someone hows been with the company for a long time. Being that Jaco took them over I'm not sure just anybody there will even know what they are talking about , I see this all the time with businesses. People just can't seem give correct answers nowadays. >>
Hi Michigan,
I will be in conact with the correct person LOL. The information you are giving is I believe about the more recent Comet which is now discontinued. I was surprised to see that chipboard insert still around.
Eric
type2,CCHunter.
Eric
<< <i>I just looked at my pictures again and boy they suck. I did not ask for true views, but maybe I'll have them imaged when I get them back. I can now see why you think the minor coins are not proof. All photos where taking in capital plastics holder under natural lighting no extra sources just the rays of the sun shining through the window. Some are even blurry and not straight on. To my defense I was just trying to get some better photos up and went to great lengths to do that for your viewing pleasure.
Edited to say DDO comment is why I went back to look again since I don't have coins right now, Not seeing the DDO can you point it out?
Also the rounded corners of the holder I have I can't find any others like it all have squared corners and also seem cheap. This holder was very well made which also brings me to believe its older. >>
Check out the link from majikbilly. Your coin shows doubling in the classic shield areas. The annulet is doubled, and the horizontal shield lines overlap the vertical ones:
Well, there may be nobody I can contact at Jayco who can answer anything before 2005. I spoke with the oldest sales rep there I believe. I would not be surprised if they trashed all their records at that time (or before). If Con Ed can literally put records of their participation in the 1939 NY World's Fair into a dumpster, I don't see why Jayco would do anything differently. People/entities often do not see the value of things beyond their vantage. It is disturbing to see the same sort of problem with these CP holders and US Pr set packaging from the 1930's
Best wishes with the grades - looking forward to the post.
Eric
1871 proof set, 10 coin NGC graded set, PF60-63
Freddie
type2,CCHunter.
<< <i>Thanks Magikbilly, I had a feeling that these records/information would be hard to find. I think best bet is asking the oldest coin shop owning dealers what they think about the holder. Maybe I'll take it one more shop and ask what they think. >>
Hi Michigan,
Sure. It was not surprising but unfortunate. I would have to say the collective information given here, by others, is more valuable than that of any single dealer. I would start a poll thread, asking for votes based on experience and observation with the choices 1940's, 1950's, 1960's, 1970's. Using my experience and observation you know my opinion. This look exactly like stuff I saw for sale in the 70's and early 80's. Of couse none of this has anything to do with the story or coins. As I said yesterday - I misunderstood this "1940's" opinion came with part of the story of the set. Keep us posted!
Eric
<< <i>The quality may not be comparable but I just stumbled on this for sale...
1871 proof set, 10 coin NGC graded set, PF60-63 >>
$5450 isn't insane; but, a nicer set could be put together for the same or less.
type2,CCHunter.
<< <i>Well I found out that capital plastics was founded in 1952, incorporated in 1960 , and purchased in June 2005 by Jaco. So the holder if Capital plastics could be no older then 1952, so being 40's is out unless produced by another company. I actually think this is capital plastics still, being as I know of no other makers of such types of coin cases. Now at least we have a timeline Capital plastics holders, note info taken from here >>
Hi Michigan,
Yes, that's the same Bill I heard from. I mentioned to you 1952 yesterday - yes, the 1940's is indeed out. I also believe it is Capital Plastics as they did manage to identify your holder as their product yesterday. There was mention of another maker as well in yesterdays posts - I will reread. I still think member WaterSport could help here from the posts I read. Is he still here? The polystyrene material and what seems to be acrylic in yours, the construction...the aluminum pins that are still sold...the font changes on yours...I am still saying 1970's at best.
Best wishes,
Eric
<< <i>
<< <i>Well I found out that capital plastics was founded in 1952, incorporated in 1960 , and purchased in June 2005 by Jaco. So the holder if Capital plastics could be no older then 1952, so being 40's is out unless produced by another company. I actually think this is capital plastics still, being as I know of no other makers of such types of coin cases. Now at least we have a timeline Capital plastics holders, note info taken from here >>
Hi Michigan,
Yes, that's the same Bill I heard from. I mentioned to you 1952 yesterday - yes, the 1940's is indeed out. I also believe it is Capital Plastics as they did manage to identify your holder as their product yesterday. There was mention of another maker as well in yesterdays posts - I will reread. I still think member WaterSport could help here from the posts I read. Is he still here? The polystyrene material and what seems to be acrylic in yours, the construction...the aluminum pins that are still sold...the font changes on yours...I am still saying 1970's at best.
Best wishes,
Eric >>
Well I reread your post can't find you mention 1952 anywhere(now I see it, never mind ). Only thing else I'm still waiting to see if prior owner still has any paperwork from auction when he bought it so I can do more background research on the coins provenance.
type2,CCHunter.
<< <i>Well I reread your post can't find you mention 1952 anywhere. Only thing else I'm still waiting to see if prior owner still has any paperwork from auction when he bought it so I can do more background research on the coins provenance. >>
Hi Michigan,
Here: Tuesday May 01, 2012 11:05 AM "For starters, I think Capital Plastics didn't start production until 1952." I still suggest contacting WaterSport if he is active here. Looking forward to the grades!
Best wishes,
Eric
WS
type2,CCHunter.
type2,CCHunter.
<< <i>
<< <i>Well they finally made it out of the registered mail hole and now comes the wait at PCGS. I not worried about any other then the dollar coming back in a circulated grade but roadrunner said in this thread he thinks it will come back in a uncirculated grade. Maybe it will, Maybe it won't I hoping to take number one spot on the registery for proof 1872 set with these coins though, I got number 4 spot in 1874 proof set, with one coin! Now that surprised me since I didn't look at the other sets before I added my one coin, only one complete set thats active. >>
I wouldn't put as much emphasis on being a certain number in the registry, not only because you can be fooling yourself with the number status but because of the fact that you can be number 4 spot with only one coin, now how ridiculous is that and how fleeting will that end up being. Just concern yourself with obtaining material that you like and is as original as possible and then you will be bullet proof but all this nonsense of the registry is just that imho. >>
I was not putting that much emhasis on the registry, why else would I mention being able to take a #4 spot with one coin. You don't think I now there are coins why better then mine or others not even in the registry. I'm just trying to have fun, thats why I collect. I'm not a dealer or investor, I'm a collector. This is what I like and if I want to put my coins in the registry and enjoy the glory of it so what.
type2,CCHunter.
<< <i>Well they finally made it out of the registered mail hole and now comes the wait at PCGS. I not worried about any other then the dollar coming back in a circulated grade but roadrunner said in this thread he thinks it will come back in a uncirculated grade. Maybe it will, Maybe it won't I hoping to take number one spot on the registery for proof 1872 set with these coins though, I got number 4 spot in 1874 proof set, with one coin! Now that surprised me since I didn't look at the other sets before I added my one coin, only one complete set that's active. >>
Based on that original looking lower grade 1871 set posted earlier I'd say getting grades of 61 or higher on all the graded coins is realistic. That 1871 quarter shows the same reverse high point issues as your 1872 and that was graded NGC PF61.
<< <i>
<< <i>Well they finally made it out of the registered mail hole and now comes the wait at PCGS. I not worried about any other then the dollar coming back in a circulated grade but roadrunner said in this thread he thinks it will come back in a uncirculated grade. Maybe it will, Maybe it won't I hoping to take number one spot on the registery for proof 1872 set with these coins though, I got number 4 spot in 1874 proof set, with one coin! Now that surprised me since I didn't look at the other sets before I added my one coin, only one complete set that's active. >>
Based on that original looking lower grade 1871 set posted earlier I'd say getting grades of 61 or higher on all the graded coins is realistic. That 1871 quarter shows the same reverse high point issues as your 1872 and that was graded NGC PF61. >>
I just pulled up that 71 set and the major coins also have a fair amount of hits in the fields and display the rub on the knee kinda like mine. The only coins in my set that has marks are the dollar ( the one right across the knee) and the shield has minor mark on the shield otherwise no hairlines or hits.
type2,CCHunter.
Approaching 200 and the coins have not been graded yet.
Various topics have come up in this thread and have generated some good discussion.
After the coins are graded and returned to michiganboy hopefully some high quality photos of the coins can be taken and posted, along with the grades. If that happens I would think this thread would easily break the 250 barrier and head towards 300.
I also hope that someone can definitively state what company manufactured the holder that the 1872 proof set was contained in. As stated before I have one that looks just like the pictured holder. I pulled it out recently and took a close look at it. It is identical to the pictured holder, except that it contains holes for the 28 proof and SMS Lincoln Cents produced between 1950 and 1975 (holes for these 26 years, plus two extra holes for 1960 and 1970 to accommodate the large and small date varieties produced those years). I do not think either holder is a Capital Holder. Neither holder has the name "Capital" embossed on it (as holders produced by Capital do); the three layers of plastic are thicker than the three layers of plastic in holders produced by Capital; and the holders have the LARGE metal screws.
Also to note my coins already show up in the orders page and they just got them today, last coin took three days to even show up in the system. Now I figure regular submission take 15-16 days turnaround grades might be up as soon as the 18th.
type2,CCHunter.
Patience grasshopper