Ok...some of those probably were just bidding for bragger's rights....just to say they did it. But I'm surprised that many would even qualify?? (Am I terribly naïve?)
Andy wins bragging rights and nailed it ($2.2m hammer, $2.64m with juice)
Honorable mentions:
Privaterarecoincollector nailed it too, but was 2nd.
TDN was off by $60k including juice.
Insider was off by $106k including juice.
Collector of Large Cents, US Type, and modern pocket change.
The result of $2,640,000 was down quite a bit from the last two auctions of this same coin in 2013 at $3,877,500.00 and 2008 at $3,737,500.00. Has any coin ever had a larger total amount drop at auction from its peak auction price?
That influenced my $3,780,000 guess a bit. Plus I was trying to find an unused increment and screwed that up since just now noticing it had previously been guessed. No bragging rights for me.
Back in 1993 it had auctioned raw at $522,500 with and AU description.
Wonder if the 1804 market would have been any higher now had the Pogue PCGS Proof-68 been allowed to sell.
.
.
.
The key question is does someone now own earings?
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
@joebb21 said:
THere was a good handful of coins only purchased within the last 2-5 years that lost large $$$$$$
the 1804 the consignor nets something like 2.4 million and lost 1.3 million.
thats a big loss
the chain cent, continental dollars were good drops as well.
Perhaps a good buy
?
No. Also look at how the Dexter specimen of the 1804 Dollar underperformed last year. It tells me this is not a one off, and despite the glowing representations some make about how wonderful things are at the very tip top of the market, there is a major problem down under even if it is only choppy and not straight out tanking at this point. The Titanic has sprung a leak. Even truly rare coins are being affected. It is revealing that a number of big fish have already bailed for less turbulent waters. And I dare someone to call this coin dreck, a widget, etc., and claim that this was the problem.
Andy wins bragging rights and nailed it ($2.2m hammer, $2.64m with juice)
Well done Andy! You're quite the prognosticator.
John Brush President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com email: John@davidlawrence.com 2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
@joebb21 said:
THere was a good handful of coins only purchased within the last 2-5 years that lost large $$$$$$
the 1804 the consignor nets something like 2.4 million and lost 1.3 million.
thats a big loss
the chain cent, continental dollars were good drops as well.
Perhaps a good buy
?
Yosef, you're quite right.
We were the underbidders on the Chain Cent and ended up winning the 1804 $1 on behalf of the Hansen Collection. They both seemed like fantastic values, especially compared to recent records.
John Brush President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com email: John@davidlawrence.com 2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
@specialist said:
JB you are my hero! But you had to bid on the Chain?????
It was all timing on the 1804. Delloy one day will make a fortune on it.
Someone has to keep you honest! You got a great deal on the Chain.
John Brush President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com email: John@davidlawrence.com 2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
The chain brought last time 1.38 because I was the underbidder. Without me it would probably have sold the last time to for 990k. The price for the 1804 Dollar makes sense to me (I forcasted also 2.2 hammer), if you look the the PR 65 at 3.3 Mio. Now we could say this one sold too cheap, which it did, and it should be 3.8 - 4 Mio. If a 65 is 4 Mio, its fair to say a AU 55 is 2.6 Mio, even if the AU 55 is now in a 62 holder.
@tradedollarnut said:
If the Pogues allow the 1804$1 to sell for $9-10M? My coin absolutely brings $5M and this coin absolutely brings $3M
What makes you so confident that the Pogue coin would sell for anywhere near that amount? The last auction appearance of $4.14 million seemed strong money at the time and seems about right if the PF65 recently fetched $3.3 million.
@specialist said:
Depends on the reserve. I think just under $4 million hammer which is less then an offer I made Stacks 3 months ago. The Dr paid us $5 million.
Not sure who needs a 1913 5C other then Delloy.
One thing people forget, even though it was an 1804 $1, it was an ugly 1804. That does turn off some people
I dont know who "needs" the 1913 other than delloy, but it is the finest of a coin that thousands have dreamed about owning for generations.
We shall see how that translates when it goes to auction.
@tradedollarnut said:
If the Pogues allow the 1804$1 to sell for $9-10M? My coin absolutely brings $5M and this coin absolutely brings $3M
What makes you so confident that the Pogue coin would sell for anywhere near that amount? The last auction appearance of $4.14 million seemed strong money at the time and seems about right if the PF65 recently fetched $3.3 million.
Because Sotheby’s swears there was a real bidder above $9M total. I have reason to believe them
@tradedollarnut said:
If the Pogues allow the 1804$1 to sell for $9-10M? My coin absolutely brings $5M and this coin absolutely brings $3M
What makes you so confident that the Pogue coin would sell for anywhere near that amount? The last auction appearance of $4.14 million seemed strong money at the time and seems about right if the PF65 recently fetched $3.3 million.
Because Sotheby’s swears there was a real bidder above $9M total. I have reason to believe them
Next time you talk to Sotheby's, ask them if there was also a real underbidder.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
@tradedollarnut said:
If the Pogues allow the 1804$1 to sell for $9-10M? My coin absolutely brings $5M and this coin absolutely brings $3M
What makes you so confident that the Pogue coin would sell for anywhere near that amount? The last auction appearance of $4.14 million seemed strong money at the time and seems about right if the PF65 recently fetched $3.3 million.
Because Sotheby’s swears there was a real bidder above $9M total. I have reason to believe them
I wonder what the reserve was. Thanks for the information.
@tradedollarnut said:
If the Pogues allow the 1804$1 to sell for $9-10M? My coin absolutely brings $5M and this coin absolutely brings $3M
What makes you so confident that the Pogue coin would sell for anywhere near that amount? The last auction appearance of $4.14 million seemed strong money at the time and seems about right if the PF65 recently fetched $3.3 million.
Because Sotheby’s swears there was a real bidder above $9M total. I have reason to believe them
Next time you talk to Sotheby's, ask them if there was also a real underbidder.
There was no retail client for the 1804 PR 65 when it auctioned. I figured the retail price at 5 Mio USD, it sold the wholesale to a dealer at 3.3 Mio with me being the underbidder (not being a retail client for this coin either).
The PR 62 in my opinion now sold for wholesale pr> @tradedollarnut said:
@tradedollarnut said:
If the Pogues allow the 1804$1 to sell for $9-10M? My coin absolutely brings $5M and this coin absolutely brings $3M
What makes you so confident that the Pogue coin would sell for anywhere near that amount? The last auction appearance of $4.14 million seemed strong money at the time and seems about right if the PF65 recently fetched $3.3 million.
Because Sotheby’s swears there was a real bidder above $9M total. I have reason to believe them
Next time you talk to Sotheby's, ask them if there was also a real underbidder.
So far as I know, just the reserve
I think for a price to qualify as a price that also indicates the value, it always requires two bidders at least at this price, the underbidder and the winning bid.
@tradedollarnut said:
I somewhat disagree...the reserve indicates the price level that the seller is willing to sell - which is just as valid a data point.
ok I can see that too. In general it seems to be a volatile market, just one or two bidders more or less can make it or break it.
Comments
I found this interesting:
14 bidders. For a coin north of $2mil.
Ok...some of those probably were just bidding for bragger's rights....just to say they did it. But I'm surprised that many would even qualify?? (Am I terribly naïve?)
$3.1 million
Since I'm a condition guy and not a rarity guy I don't have a clue.
Closed at 2,200,000 (2,640,000)
Andy wins bragging rights and nailed it ($2.2m hammer, $2.64m with juice)
Honorable mentions:
Privaterarecoincollector nailed it too, but was 2nd.
TDN was off by $60k including juice.
Insider was off by $106k including juice.
THere was a good handful of coins only purchased within the last 2-5 years that lost large $$$$$$
the 1804 the consignor nets something like 2.4 million and lost 1.3 million.
thats a big loss
the chain cent, continental dollars were good drops as well.
Perhaps a good buy
?
Looks like @MrEureka was the first to call it. Later equaled by @privaterarecoincollector and @Justacommeman.
Most guesses were higher with a few lower.
The result of $2,640,000 was down quite a bit from the last two auctions of this same coin in 2013 at $3,877,500.00 and 2008 at $3,737,500.00. Has any coin ever had a larger total amount drop at auction from its peak auction price?
That influenced my $3,780,000 guess a bit. Plus I was trying to find an unused increment and screwed that up since just now noticing it had previously been guessed. No bragging rights for me.
Back in 1993 it had auctioned raw at $522,500 with and AU description.
Wonder if the 1804 market would have been any higher now had the Pogue PCGS Proof-68 been allowed to sell.
.
.
.
The key question is does someone now own earings?
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
Lustig continues to impress....
siliconvalleycoins.com
No. Also look at how the Dexter specimen of the 1804 Dollar underperformed last year. It tells me this is not a one off, and despite the glowing representations some make about how wonderful things are at the very tip top of the market, there is a major problem down under even if it is only choppy and not straight out tanking at this point. The Titanic has sprung a leak. Even truly rare coins are being affected. It is revealing that a number of big fish have already bailed for less turbulent waters. And I dare someone to call this coin dreck, a widget, etc., and claim that this was the problem.
Well done Andy! You're quite the prognosticator.
President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com
email: John@davidlawrence.com
2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
Yosef, you're quite right.
We were the underbidders on the Chain Cent and ended up winning the 1804 $1 on behalf of the Hansen Collection. They both seemed like fantastic values, especially compared to recent records.
President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com
email: John@davidlawrence.com
2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
Was the reserve of the Pogue 1804 dollar ever published after the close of the auction?
Coins like that you can't flip ( in a few years) and expect to make money .
They need to be held long term.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
JB you are my hero! But you had to bid on the Chain?????
It was all timing on the 1804. Delloy one day will make a fortune on it.
Someone has to keep you honest! You got a great deal on the Chain.
President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com
email: John@davidlawrence.com
2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
The chain brought last time 1.38 because I was the underbidder. Without me it would probably have sold the last time to for 990k. The price for the 1804 Dollar makes sense to me (I forcasted also 2.2 hammer), if you look the the PR 65 at 3.3 Mio. Now we could say this one sold too cheap, which it did, and it should be 3.8 - 4 Mio. If a 65 is 4 Mio, its fair to say a AU 55 is 2.6 Mio, even if the AU 55 is now in a 62 holder.
How long did it take to flip the Dexter/Pogue 1804?
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Probably so. I figure Hansen saved about 300K.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
If the Pogues allow the 1804$1 to sell for $9-10M? My coin absolutely brings $5M and this coin absolutely brings $3M
So I guess I should say thanks!
I checked the previous post and found three posters had hit it dead on. Congrats to Mr. Eureka, Privatecoincollector, and Justacommonman.
Now: What do you think the 1913 Nickel will bring ? 5 Million ?
Depends on the reserve. I think just under $4 million hammer which is less then an offer I made Stacks 3 months ago. The Dr paid us $5 million.
Not sure who needs a 1913 5C other then Delloy.
One thing people forget, even though it was an 1804 $1, it was an ugly 1804. That does turn off some people
More so, since he can do this for US coins and world coins probably better than anybody.
Coin Rarities Online
What makes you so confident that the Pogue coin would sell for anywhere near that amount? The last auction appearance of $4.14 million seemed strong money at the time and seems about right if the PF65 recently fetched $3.3 million.
I dont know who "needs" the 1913 other than delloy, but it is the finest of a coin that thousands have dreamed about owning for generations.
We shall see how that translates when it goes to auction.
2.2
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member
A day late and 2.2 million dollars short!
Looks like Heritage was real winner...............
Because Sotheby’s swears there was a real bidder above $9M total. I have reason to believe them
...this thread is dripping wet with Real Money, Experts and Winners! Congrats to the new owner of such an Amazing Coin! Inspiring for sure
Rachel offered to clean it up.
Next time you talk to Sotheby's, ask them if there was also a real underbidder.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I wonder what the reserve was. Thanks for the information.
So far as I know, just the reserve
There was no retail client for the 1804 PR 65 when it auctioned. I figured the retail price at 5 Mio USD, it sold the wholesale to a dealer at 3.3 Mio with me being the underbidder (not being a retail client for this coin either).
The PR 62 in my opinion now sold for wholesale pr> @tradedollarnut said:
I think for a price to qualify as a price that also indicates the value, it always requires two bidders at least at this price, the underbidder and the winning bid.
I somewhat disagree...the reserve indicates the price level that the seller is willing to sell - which is just as valid a data point.
ok I can see that too. In general it seems to be a volatile market, just one or two bidders more or less can make it or break it.
The Chain Cent and 1804 may go up, but I think we'll see much lower levels on Continental Dollars in the coming years.
What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake
This is a fantastic thread!
Far East Eagle