Why doesn't PSA offer 9.5's

I understand grading isn't a science, but if a card can grade 6.5 or 8.5 then why not 9.5?

Comments

  • 1970s1970s Posts: 2,181 ✭✭✭✭

    See your point, but a MINT 9 card is not much different then a GEM MINT 10.

    However, an 8 is a bit different then a 9, and a 7 is different then an 8.

    I can notice the differences between all grades 1 through 8, but I can not tell much difference
    between a 9 and 10.

  • HighGradeLegendsHighGradeLegends Posts: 1,339 ✭✭✭

    More importantly, why do they not offer 11s?

  • GilbeyGilbey Posts: 112 ✭✭

    I understand what you are saying, but for arguments sake the difference between a 4 and 5 is the same as 9 and 10. Therefore how would a grader acknowledge the difference.

  • LittletweedLittletweed Posts: 620 ✭✭✭

    I understand your argument, but they didn't think having more than 2 mint grades was necessary. They adapted to the current market, but stayed original.

    PSA company news release:

    After carefully considering significant changes in the trading card marketplace and listening to the requests of hobbyists, Professional Sports Authenticator (PSA) will implement a new half-point precision grading system effective February 1, 2008. The familiar 1 through 10 PSA grading scale will now also include a half-point grade from 1.5 through 8.5.

    The expanded grading scale will apply only to single cards, not unopened packs or tickets.

    “As the card market advances, we felt it was imperative to enhance our grading standards so the grade can more accurately reflect the quality and value of the card,” said Joe Orlando, President of PSA.

    “The original 1 to 10 PSA scale was the sound choice to help the grading concept gain acceptance in the 1980s, but with the ever-increasing price gaps and disparities now between grades as well as the popularity of the PSA Set RegistrySM, the time is right to modify the system and provide more assurance to hobbyists. Now when a seller claims, ‘This card is at the high end for its grade,’ buyers can have PSA’s unbiased, third-party opinion about that description.”

    In a statement explaining the new system, PSA emphasized that a card certified with a half point grade is considered an exceptional example within the particular grade. Because centering is so important and clearly visible to most collectors, the strength or weakness of the centering will have a significant impact on the final grade.

    Orlando pointed out there are now huge differences in values between PSA 7, 8 and 9; in some cases, literally thousands of dollars.

    “For example, if a 1955 Topps Sandy Koufax rookie card in PSA NM-MT 8 is currently worth about $2,200 and a PSA Mint 9 is worth approximately $18,000-plus, there should be a card that falls somewhere in between those two numbers,” explained Orlando who also is Editor of Sports Market Report, a monthly price guide.

    PSA will add a half-point grade within each of the 1 to 10 numbers with the exception of a 9.5 grade.

    “We felt it was not necessary to add a third Mint grade since PSA already has a Mint 9 and Gem Mint 10 grade as part of the current scale. For the first time, this new system will also help separate cards that are graded Poor or Fair since the previous scale combined those two grades at the same PSA 1 level. This can result in a significant difference in value if the card in question is a T206 Honus Wagner or a 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle.”

    Owners of PSA Certified cards cards do not have to re-submit them, but can take advantage of optional re-grading. Orlando emphasized that the whole grades, PSA 1 through 10, still apply and are valid, and that there is absolutely no obligation for collectors or dealers to send their already-certified cards to PSA for half-point consideration.

    “Cards submitted under the optional re-grade program will never be in jeopardy of going down in grade,” Orlando explained. “The only risk in submitting cards under this new program would be the cost of the submission since there is no guarantee that the cards will reach the higher, half-point grade. But when a 1951 Bowman Willie Mays card in PSA 7 now is valued around $3,200 and about $11,000 in PSA 8, there’s little downside in finding out if your card qualifies as a 7.5. Depending on the specific card, there also can be substantial price gaps between whole grades even in the lower end of the grading scale.”

    Matt

  • GilbeyGilbey Posts: 112 ✭✭

    Thanks little weed, I appreciate the answer.

  • olb31olb31 Posts: 1,247 ✭✭✭

    Here are some items that could be considered:

    1) Mint 10 - Centering should be almost perfect, this would eliminate 25% - 33% or more of the 10's that exist.
    2) For auto's with company confirmations, why should you have to pay extra for the auto grade (or at the very least pay a nominal amount like Beckett).
    3) I could see a 9.5 being a gem mint card that does not meet the "almost perfect centering" criteria, but is more centered than what a 9 qualifies for.

    Work hard and you will succeed!!
  • brad31brad31 Posts: 636 ✭✭✭

    The question is why not remove 10 and replace with 9.5 to be consistent. PSA 10 was always the high end of PSA 9 and is the equivalent of the original half grade. For long time collectors the scale always topped at Mint.

  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 4,837 ✭✭✭✭

    There is no reason 9.5 couldn't be "mint+" there are many examples of cards that would fall into this category.

    PSA simply didn't want to do it.

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • galaxy27galaxy27 Posts: 2,662 ✭✭✭✭

    9.5 would mitigate the number of sliders and therefore fortify the lofty status associated with the crème de la crème

  • olb31olb31 Posts: 1,247 ✭✭✭

    Probably for 99% of the cards from 1970 up, they shouldn't grade anything that isn't at least an 8. For the 1981 and up, add a 10+ grade for the 10's that are completely centered. Too many 10's, just don't look like 10's (centering) for the 1981 and up. Would create revenue as you would have to send in to get reviewed.

    Work hard and you will succeed!!
  • MeferMefer Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭

    Personally, I am not a big fan of the .5 grading scale. It was fine to me at 1-10. While I do have some ".5ers" in my collection, it nonetheless looks weird to me to see that on a label.

  • CrissCrissCrissCriss Posts: 714 ✭✭✭

    It's been discussed, though not recently I don't think.

    The Crisser
  • GilbeyGilbey Posts: 112 ✭✭

    Thanks Crisser, flex on

  • DotStoreDotStore Posts: 66 ✭✭

    Sorry to bring back an old post. I did a Google search and found this thread. Good information here because I always wondered when they started adding the half grade increments (stated above it was 2/1/2008).

    I really think to keep up with the other two graders, PSA should introduce the 9.5 grade. or at least a plus sign for the 9's that are exceptional but not quite a 10 (like a PSA 9+). The price variance between PSA 9 and PSA 10 for some of the great cards in this hobby can be 10's of thousands (if not more).

    A well-known eBay Seller assigns their own scale for pre-graded cards (based on their factors such as eye-appeal for the assigned technical grade). They almost always achieve higher selling amounts when they deem a card as "Premium Quality" within the assigned grade. I think it's time PSA offers that between grade for 9 vs 10.

    Side note: I like the new holders and grading that SGC is doing. Looking at several examples in hand of SGC 9.5 cards, I often agree they are between PSA 9 and PSA 10 -- so the grade seems to be accurate (to my eyes). And SGC 9.5's will soon be the goto option for cards such as the 1980 Bird/Johnson or 1993 SP Jeter (as the PSA 10's are out of reach for most, but the SGC 9.5's might be a great alternative...)

  • mexpo75mexpo75 Posts: 1,368 ✭✭✭

    So this is sort of like what PWCC does with it's HE designation?

    PackManInNC
  • grote15grote15 Posts: 26,914 ✭✭✭✭✭

    In my experience in recent years, at least, any half grades on a sub are very few and far between.



    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • DotStoreDotStore Posts: 66 ✭✭

    @mexpo75 said:
    So this is sort of like what PWCC does with it's HE designation?

    Exactly - I couldn't remember what they called it. HE (High End) was the term. They even affix their own hologram to the outside of the card case and you get a corresponding card with the hologram serial number. I think they even have different levels within the "HE" assignment...

  • brad31brad31 Posts: 636 ✭✭✭

    PSA 10 = PSA 9.5 already. Gem Mint is a recently made up grade. All of the old scales stopped at Mint which was the best a card could be. PSA 10 is the top cards of those that are PSA 9 just as a PSA 8.5 is the top cards of those that are PSA 8. To me PSA 10 is the original half grade.

  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 267 ✭✭✭

    A beckett grade of 10= A myth.

  • PSA 9.5...HE or High-end? Well, now, let me see. You know, I don’t have any idea what that means. I know what you think it means, sonny. To me, they're just made up words. Silly words, sonny. Young fellas like yourself can wear a jersey and a ballcap and have a job. What do you really want to know? That I think 9.5 and HE are stupid? There’s not a day goes by I don’t feel it. Not because I’m here. Because you think I should. I look back on the way I was then. A collector who was old school. I want to talk to him. I want to try to talk some sense to him. Tell him the way things are. But I can’t. That kid’s long gone and this old man’s all that’s left. I got to live with that. PSA 9.5 and HE? Those are just bull**** words. So you go on and spew your ideas sonny, and stop wasting my time. Because, to tell you the truth, I don’t give a sh**.

    Bryan

    "When I die, I want to die like my grandfather who died peacefully in his sleep and not like the screaming passengers in his car."

  • @olb31 said:
    Probably for 99% of the cards from 1970 up, they shouldn't grade anything that isn't at least an 8. For the 1981 and up, add a 10+ grade for the 10's that are completely centered. Too many 10's, just don't look like 10's (centering) for the 1981 and up. Would create revenue as you would have to send in to get reviewed.

    Couldn't Agree More !!!

  • ssollarsssollars Posts: 842 ✭✭✭

    EagleEyeKid said:
    PSA 9.5...HE or High-end? Well, now, let me see. You know, I don’t have any idea what that means. I know what you think it means, sonny. To me, they're just made up words. Silly words, sonny. Young fellas like yourself can wear a jersey and a ballcap and have a job. What do you really want to know? That I think 9.5 and HE are stupid? There’s not a day goes by I don’t feel it. Not because I’m here. Because you think I should. I look back on the way I was then. A collector who was old school. I want to talk to him. I want to try to talk some sense to him. Tell him the way things are. But I can’t. That kid’s long gone and this old man’s all that’s left. I got to live with that. PSA 9.5 and HE? Those are just bull**** words. So you go on and spew your ideas sonny, and stop wasting my time. Because, to tell you the truth, I don’t give a sh**.

    I bet you're a man who knows how to get things?

  • There's a con like me in every prison in America, I guess. I'm the guy who can get it for you. Topps, Donruss, a bag of reefer if you're partial, a bottle of brandy to celebrate your kid's high school graduation. Damn near anything, within reason.

    Bryan

    "When I die, I want to die like my grandfather who died peacefully in his sleep and not like the screaming passengers in his car."

  • countdouglascountdouglas Posts: 546 ✭✭✭

    Can you get me Rita Hayworth?

  • drcdrc Posts: 368 ✭✭

    SCD grading, if you remember them, had an 11. For cards directly from unopened packs.

  • Just saw an SGC 9.5 Kobe Bryant in their new label. Can't link as I'm on my cheap phone, but the item # 323779068567. While I agree it's not gem, the designation makes no sense to me. There's white on the upper right corner and it shows on the back as well. If I saw this raw or just covered up the label, it's a 9 at best and that being generous. So am I to believe that this 9.5 is a high end 9. Lame-O!

    Bryan

    "When I die, I want to die like my grandfather who died peacefully in his sleep and not like the screaming passengers in his car."

  • handymanhandyman Posts: 4,252 ✭✭✭

    They do. PWCC PSA 9 PQ mean 9.5 right? Or is that 9.25 and 9.5 is the PWCC HE?

  • I miss the good old days when USA (ultimate sportscard authority) had 9.1, 9.2, 9.3, up to 9.8. with each tenth bringing a $1 premium.

    Bryan

    "When I die, I want to die like my grandfather who died peacefully in his sleep and not like the screaming passengers in his car."

  • eagles33eagles33 Posts: 2,472 ✭✭✭

    I think It is too late for them to change this. If there were 9.5 it would make 10s as exclusive as bgs 10... but there are already 1,000s of PSA 10s graded that should only be 9.5s under a new criteria. They would have to change the flip if they rolled 9.5s so people know that if they are buying a psa 10 in the new flip it is pristine and should be a premium to a PSA 10 in the old flip ... they would also have to review every old PSA 10 sent in to be reholdered to determine if it should be a gem mint 9.5 or pristine 10

    Scans of most of my Misc rookies can be found <a target=new class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://forums.collectors.com/m...y&keyword1=Non%20major">here
  • DotStoreDotStore Posts: 66 ✭✭

    Perhaps PSA could assign the 9.5 to the ultra-rare cards that have very small numbers of PSA 10's

    They could have a list of what cards are 9.5 Eligible -- could be tough cards such as:
    anything earlier that mid 1970's
    1980 Topps Bird Johnson
    1993 SP Derek Jeter

  • garnettstylegarnettstyle Posts: 1,865 ✭✭✭

    Don't PSA/DNA have 9.5's?

    IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED

  • Rttrffg2012Rttrffg2012 Posts: 176 ✭✭✭

    I can see pros and cons of having a 9.5:

    I think .5 in lower grades is great.

    A 6 that has perfect centering or sharp corners getting a .5 bump tells me- “it’s really a 6 but has at least one feature of a mint/gem card.”

    If a card is 9 mint, to have a 9.5 would basically be to close to deny a 10. This might agitate customers.

    But this is a business. There is room, and demand, for a grade between 9 and 10. PWCC -HE has proven this.

    There really is no reason to not have a 9.5.

    Maybe psa is waiting till submissions drop and they’ll use the 9.5 grade fir marketing.

  • DotStoreDotStore Posts: 66 ✭✭

    @Rttrffg2012 said:
    I can see pros and cons of having a 9.5:

    I think .5 in lower grades is great.

    A 6 that has perfect centering or sharp corners getting a .5 bump tells me- “it’s really a 6 but has at least one feature of a mint/gem card.”

    If a card is 9 mint, to have a 9.5 would basically be to close to deny a 10. This might agitate customers.

    But this is a business. There is room, and demand, for a grade between 9 and 10. PWCC -HE has proven this.

    There really is no reason to not have a 9.5.

    Maybe psa is waiting till submissions drop and they’ll use the 9.5 grade fir marketing.

    I agree there's room and demand for a grade between 9 and 10. The difference between a PSA 9 and PSA 10 can be huge for some of the most sought after cards in the hobby...

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