How important is FASC?
mouschi
Posts: 689 ✭✭✭✭
I'm getting into wax a little bit here, and have only just recently learned what FASC means. The question is this: How important is FASC (aside from higher resell value) for boxes like 1980 Topps, 1982 Topps, 1984 Donruss etc? Were the cards sequentially collated so everyone knew where to pull what pack for the Henderson, Ripken, Mattingly etc?
Tanner Jones, Author of Confessions of a Baseball Card Addict - Now Available on Amazon!
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I think it's pretty good for non x-out cello and rack boxes.
What are X-out boxes? I've seen them before but there is a reason for them?
End of the season, the stores packed all the boxes up and sent them back to Topps for credit. Then Topps put black lines on the lids to signify they were already returned for credit. Then Topps blew them out to a few dealers at bargain prices....so a black lined box could theoretically consist of many different packs from many different boxes.
Fasc means for cello and rack that you could get stars on top or bottom...the black lined boxes, probably not.
Usually black lined boxes were on Topps hockey and football since nobody wanted those.
I think 1980 is the oldest box I saw a black line on.
cool thanks for letting me know!
I've opened some X-out 1984 Topps hockey boxes before. FWIW, I had expected some might have been searched, or, an aggregate reassembly job with whatever loosies were hanging around the store, but I was happy to have found enough Yzerman RC's in the packs to convince myself that that was not the case and the boxes were trustworthy.
1984 Topps hockey is probably the most black lined hockey box I have seen.
I've never held one in hand personally, but I know of people who have!
Hiya Tanner
Not sure about the "sequence" in all the boxes you've mentioned.
But, I have to say - if there was any possibility of a sequence? The pack guys knew.
I remember when guys were selling 83F cellos telling you what RC was "inside."
How much in its entirety is urban legend? I have no idea.
I can only tell you what I know for sure - and this has more to do with "left over" partial boxes that were recombined - some are calling a "Frankenstein box?"
FASC will eliminate that possibility which is not germaine - as such - to getting more for the box.
There is some debate on what type of premium should be placed on a box that is designated as FASC. Prior threads have pegged it at 15-20% premium over the going rate for a non-FASC box. I think it should be more the 20% or maybe higher for certain product. Why is it important? Because a person can cherry pick a rack box or cello box and replace it with non-HOFers on top and still be able to get the box wrapped as authentic--because all the packs are authentic. Frankenstein boxes-as we say. Always go FASC if you can
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Both very true. I was 13 in 83, bought a ton of Fleer 83 Cellos from Revco and Eckerd, wasn't really a pack guy but hell I knew. Rookies, Dale Murphy, the Henderson / Jackson cards stand out in my memory. Edit to add: I'm going to leave folks out but not on purpose there's just quite a few really knowledgeable unopened folks but whatever Grote, Flatfoot and DJR say on the subject I'd listen.
CPAMike is an authority as well...
I think it depends on intent to some degree. A box collection for pure pleasure, not sure it matters a ton. Intent to resell or increase liquidity, FASC is the way to go. If ripping, for wax, I'd be ok with non-FASC for Topps and Donruss, but would prefer FASC for Fleer. For Cellos and Racks, as stated above, non-FASC may have been cherry picked for stars top and bottom. But note, the FASC term and labeling is only maybe 5-7 years old. Steve Wrapped plenty of case fresh boxes before that without the notation, so you just never know.
My .02
FASCWhat abbreviation does that stand for.
Thanks.
It's a huge factor for rack and cello packs to ensure that the star packs haven't been cherrypicked. Also, that one pack hasn't been opened, filled with OC cards, and that pack is replaced to seal the box back up.
Of course, even a FASC box isn't guaranteed not to be an OC or dud box. As an unopened collector, though, you like to have a box as original or intact as possible. Also, you can be assured that all the packs in a FASC box are case fresh whereas with a put together box that is not necessarily the case. You are only assured of getting packs that aren't resealed or tampered with, though Steve will typically indicate any major issues with regard to damage on the sticker. Still, I like my boxes to contain factory fresh packs.
One thing to note~the FASC acronym was created about 8 or so years ago. Prior to that, Steve wrapped boxes straight from a case without any indication of such on the wrapper (I have one from 1978 from a 78 case we broke here on CU a decade ago), so there are old school BBCE boxes out there that are FASC but not noted as such. It is somewhat difficult to tell with a cello or rack box, but you can also get a good idea of whether a wax box from the 1970s is original by checking the distribution of wrapper variations within the box.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I found that the best of the best is the single box FASC-MID-MID from a FASC MID-MID Case which is FASP
Translation - Single box from a sealed case in the middle middle, from a sealed case in the middle middle from a sealed pallet! Then again, I might just be a bit picky!
Work in progress - Unopened Racks/Cello/Wax with star power for Baseball, Football and Basketball
Collecting unopened 80's boxes and graded packs
I may be hoarding too much 80's junk wax but I like it!
There is also some importance on FASMOTC (from a sealed middle of the case). There was a 1980 Topps baseball case break on these boards a little while ago where the middle boxes were cherry while the bottom boxes were a little crushed.
buying O-Pee-Chee (OPC) baseball
Some guy here posted a Jose canseco card bring grilled. That’s a 1/1 I’m sure you don’t have in your collection.
Ps - I tried to find the thread. It was before my time here and I’ve never seen it. But that thread is always discussed with reverence by those who have seen it.
As for FASC I would go with it for either opening or keeping unopened with the exception of the junkiest of junk era. It’s also mandatory for things like 89 upper deck and 89 hoops series 1.
The Jose on the grill was easily top five threads ever during my time here. Fire, fire, fire.
OP I think if you are looking to bust packs it is very important. You want them closest to their virgin state to ensure your best odds of winning.
I recently busted a rack box and the seller listed it with a few packs showing and I saw the primary star card on the back of one of the cells so I felt confident that it wasn't tampered with but the sets you reference have been highly graded for years and paying a premium for your best odds seems well worth it to me.
There are many sets where a box typically only yields one of the card that you are looking for so if someone opens a few packs and nails one they can easily fill it with other packs or worse yet resealed packs and your investment goes up in smoke just like Jose did.
Dang! I'd love to see where that is. I may have to try to look that post up later! Ironically enough, I actually did a photoshop job of a dual patch Canseco on a grill for an article of mine a few years back.
@BALROG They could always go swimming!
Sadly, the pics are all gone from the thread. https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/918229/hi-hello-jose-canseco-baseball-card-exchange-signing/p1 Maybe someone on this thread still has them?
Thank you for the link good sir!