1972 Topps BB Series 5/6 Wax Box Break - PSA Slabbing Available - Updated Tue 4/17 6:30PM
70ToppsFanatic
Posts: 2,104 ✭✭✭✭
Since I am one of the people who usually organize BBCE breaks on the board let me start by explaining that this break is for a box from my personal collection, which is why this posting is on BST instead of the main forum. I did this a few years ago with several 1975 mini boxes, and anyone who was here will remember the abnormally good centering and great results from those boxes. You can search through the historical threads and see the results for yourself.
Also, since this is a box form my personal collection, I will not be able to participate in the break personally, much that I would like to do so. This prevents any possibility or even appearance of cherry-picking for personal gain.
The story behind the 1972 BB Series 5/6 Wax boxes is that they were found in the home of a former Topps executive, who put them away back in the day and just kept them until they were discovered. There were approximately 20 of them in total, presumed to be from the same case, and they were sold to the finder in two transactions a number of months apart. Each box contains 24 packs and there are 5 cards from series 5 and 5 cards from series 6 in each pack.
Series 5 star power includes Rose (559), Rose IA (560), and Ryan (595). Series 6 star power includes Garvey (686), Carew (695), Carew IA (696), Carlton Traded (751), Morgan Traded (752) and F Robinson Traded (754). There are additional HOFers in Series 5 (Marichal and Niekro) and Series 6 (Wilhelm), plus series 6 are the tough-to-find high numbers
These boxes were in incredibly nice shape. We actually broke one of them several years ago on the board. The cards were nicely centered and, for the most part, in pristine condition. From the two packs I ripped I submitted the following:
1 1 20649629 NEAR MINT-MINT+ 8.5 1972 Topps 559 Pete Rose Card
2 1 20649630 NEAR MINT 7 1972 Topps 595 Nolan Ryan Card
12 1 23787138 MINT 9 1972 Topps 668 Rangers Team Card
13 1 23787139 MINT 9 1972 Topps 687 Del Unser Card
14 1 23787140 GEM MINT 10 1972 Topps 726 Dick Selma Card
Were it not for a corner of the Ryan being dinged through the pack it would have been at least as good as the Rose IMO.
I'm offering the break at $425/pack INCLUDING insured shipping.
IF YOU WANT THE PACKS SLABBED BY PSA the additional cost is $55/pack and you will have to accept whatever PSA's turnaround time is between the time I ship the packs to them and the time they return them to me. They quote a 70-day interval, but given recent experience it is no possible for me to guarantee a timeframe.
The rules for this break will be as follows:
- The entire box must be allocated or the break will be cancelled
- Allocation of the packs will be as follows; 1st slot gets top, leftmost pack,
2nd slot gets top second leftmost pack, 3rd slot gets top second rightmost pack,
4th slot gets top rightmost pack, 5th slot gets 2nd level leftmost pack, etc. - Up to 2 packs may be requested every 24 hours by any board member
- Payments via PayPal (friends & family, i.e. no fees taken out by PayPal) are due within 24 hours of the time the break is declared closed
- The first 10 people who send payments will be eligible to receive the empty wax box. If the "ones" digit of the minutes of the timestamp of the posting that claims slot 24 (i.e. the last pack) is a "1" then the first person who paid receives the empty wax box. If that digit is a "2" then the second person who paid receives the empty wax box. This method will continue for subsequent digits with the value "0" corresponding to the tenth person who paid.
Updates will be posted regularly.
1972 Topps BB Series 5/6 Wax Box (24 packs at $425 per pack delivered)
1. daddymc (slabbed)
2. daddymc (slabbed)
3. brad31 (slabbed)
4. JBrules (slabbed)
5. flatfoot816 (slabbed)
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Dave
Comments
I will take two packs.
For the new folks on here you can trust Dave (1970ToppsFanatic) 100%. I've done groups breaks and personal deals with him as have many of the vets on here. If only these packs were 2 years older! LOL. Good Luck, Dave.
If they were 2 years older we would both be in heaven.
Thanks for the positive reference and the kind wishes
Dave
+1
Dave is top notch.
Dave, speaking of 75 minis, any chance on breaking one of those boxes, as well?
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
This is probably a no-go, and the OP can sell anyway he feels most comfortable, but I would be interested in 2 packs if they are slabbed by PSA first (albeit at a higher cost). Thanks.
Appreciate the idea. The only real issue is the turnaround time involved. Normally it's supposed to be 70 days, but given the recent backlog I'm concerned that it could be months before the packs would be in your hands.
Extra costs would be the PSA costs plus the insured shipping to and from PSA. Their current price to grade a 1972 pack of this value is $35 + $5 handling fee. Figure insuring a $500 item each way would be $6.40 each way. Round it up to $15.00 so it would be about an extra $55/pack.
If you would be willing to go for the extra costs and hold me harmless with respect to how much time it would take for PSA to get the packs graded then I'd be happy to get them slabbed. Just post your approval of this and I'll add you name to the reservations list.
Dave
Thanks Tim. Appreciate the reference.
Still holding about half of that case of 75 minis for the future. Haven't seen centering like these since we did the original breaks.
That being said, there are a few 1970 BB unopened items you have that you know I have interest in that could be made part of a trade for one of these 1975 mini boxes. Drop me a PM or give me a call anytime you want to discuss it further.
Dave
+1 as well for Dave.
If he or Tim (Grote) put something up for sale I would buy sight unseen and would highly recommend them to anyone looking for unopened - everything I have ever picked up has been as good as advertised.
FyI - if a 1975 mini box is broken per above I am in for several packs for sure, and while I never collected 1972 knowing where they came from I might take 1 or 2 packs -would wait the time needed as well for grading and not an issue.
Thanks guys.
KC
Can someone please educate me on how wax boxes were allocated in 1972 with regards to series? Were there wax boxes specific to series 5, specific to series 6, and combined with series 5 and 6?
Thanks and good luck with this rip to all who participate!
Am I wrong in assuming there's no way PSA could label these packs 5th/6th series just by looking at the packs ?
Cannot give you the gold standard on this, but I can tell you what I have seen and what I believe.
I have seen wax boxes for each individual series (1-6), and then I have seen the combination series 5/6 boxes.
What I believe is based on the knowledge that prior to 1974 Topps released the cards in series starting in the late winter/early spring (feb/mar) and then every 4-6 weeks thereafter until late summer (aug/sep) until the entire year’s cards were in circulation. It was thought that the series approach kept the demand steady for the kids who collected and traded the cards, as they had to go back for more in order to get a favorite player who was in a higher series or finish off their sets.
Sometimes there were “overruns” in Card and wrapper production. With wrappers you Dan find examples of extra 1970 wrappers being used to wrap 1971 cards, extra 1974 wrappers being used to wrap 1976 cards and others.
In the case of 1972 and the series 5/6 boxes I suspect that they had a production overrun of the series 5 cards, so to get rid of them in August 1972 they decided to put out some cases of mixed series before sending out the series 6 only boxes. My guess is that they was limited distribution of the series 5/6 boxes. There probably were not that many of them, so they were probably shipped to only a few localities back in the day.
How many of the series 5/6 boxes were produced is impossible for me to say. What I can say is that the twenty or so of the boxes in this find came from the home of a retired Topps executive. From 1972-1975 he would bring home unopened product (wax and rack packaging) and packed them away. They were rediscovered around 2009-2010 and purchased by the finder in two transactions some number of months apart.
With a fellow board member we purchased a good deal of this material from the finder.
I know that this forum was responsible for a group rip that consumed one of the boxes. The centering and quality/condition of the cards was fantastic. The unopened packs were similarly pristine. It is assumed that the rest of the boxes would have come from the same production runs, and therefore would be similar.
Hope that helps. Anyone who has additional knowledge is welcome to add to it amend my thoughts.
Dave
There are a few ways that I think this could be done.
1) I bring the BBCE-wrapped box to PSA with the BBCE sticker indicating series 5/6 and have them open it and take out as many packs as need to be graded. That way they know it came directly from a box that BBCE sealed.
2) I send the box to BBCE and have them remove the packs that need grading and send them to PSA with certification of series 5/6.
3) we pick out packs from the box where the outer cards on both sides of the pack can be discerned (one side is series 5 and the other side is series 6)
I’m not a fan of #3. #1 would be a bit costly. #2 is a real possibility as I don’t live too far from BBCE and get there 1-2 times a year.
If we get that far I can contact both PSA and BBCE and see how they would prefer it be done.
Dave
I would be in for one pack slabbed by PSA if we could do Option 1 or Option 2 and the slab would be marked as Series 5/6. If I understand correctly cost is $480.
Thanks for offering this. Hope we get enough interest.
Count me in for one pack slabbed if this happens.
So I apologize if I am derailing this thread, but this stuff is fascinating to me. If PSA can't tell they are series 5/6 packs, how in the Sam Margaret was BBCE able to tell and thus label the box as such?
Not a problem at all. Last we were told BBCE is still the expert that PSA uses for authenticating unopened materials that they receive for grading.
I think the general understanding is that anything unopened that gets submitted for grading must be authenticated first by Steve Hart (BBCE owner). Steve provides PSA with an opinion regarding whether or not the item is authentic and untampered with and then PSA does the grading if Steve authenticates it is good.
For more details you would probably be best contacting PSA directly with any questions you might have.
Dave
I would be interested in two graded packs, as long as they are NM-MT.
Is this one of those instances where Steve has to open a pack to confirm? I know I recall reading about him doing that with I think it was 91T Desert Shield.
It is fairly easy to tell which cards are showing through the back of 72 wax packs as the vast majority of these packs (and the box we previously broke on CU) features a card face out on back. The card on top is a bit more difficult but discernible in many cases, too. The last time we broke a box, I submitted a pack to PSA and it was attributed as a series 5/6 pack.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
He will do that with DS packs and with the East West basketball packs, but I've never heard of him doing it for a box like this one
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I have no reason to believe that they would not grade highly, given what we have see from the boxes that were opened before, but there is not way I could guarantee ANY particular grade. That would be up to PSA.
Apologies, but I can't add your request to the list above with any kind of requirements for certain grades.
Best I can offer is to send packs out for slabbing by PSA or raw packs. Most likely way the slabbed packs scenario occurs is that I take a ride to BBCE and open the box there so that BBCE can certify the packs as coming from that box when it is opened. I'd get them all packed up for shipping right there and have BBCE shrink wrap the package and provide a cover letter addressed to PSA explaining that they were series 5/6. Then send it off to PSA and we should be in good shape.
Not sure what the cost of BBCE providing such services might be, but I'll pay the first $150 of them and then divide the rest over all people buying slabbed packs to be added to the $480.
Dave
I will take 1 pack if slabbed. Would you still allocate the packs as they came out of the box and then do a separate sub for each pack to assure what comes out of the box goes to who got it? That way whatever grade it is it is
I would like to have mine slabbed as well.