So-Called Dollar New Listing Census

Zoins

This is a list of new HK listings beyond the 2nd edition. I'll continue to add to this list as I run across them. Please post any you run across here.

• HK-11F - 1861 Bombardment of Fort Sumpter - Silver
• HK-457A - 1926 US Sesquicentennial, Pietz Dollar - Bronze
• HK-457B - 1926 US Sesquicentennial, Liberty Bell (ATS, HA)
• HK-482A - 1939 CA Treasure Island - Golden Gate Expo - Silver
• HK-482B - 1939 CA Treasure Island - Golden Gate Expo - Silvered
• HK-482C - 1939 CA Treasure Island - Golden Gate Expo - GS
• HK-573A - 1976 Beaver Dollar - Revolution Bicentennial - NGC collision with HK silver plated HK-573A
• HK-650A - 1902 New England Association of Arts and Crafts - Type 3
• HK-876B - 1905 Gold-Plated Bronze Denver Mint Opening (PCGS)
• HK-902A - (1919-20) W.W.I Victory Medal with Loop - Gold (ATS)
• HK-1000A - (1826) Erie Canal Completion Medal with alternate reverse - Silver

The HK-482 additions below are from ATS Census while the HK-902A is not in the Census but is on an insert.

jonathanb

New listings are at https://so-calleddollars.com/New_Discoveries.html (yes, I see that the website certificate is expired. I'll fix it tonight).

I've seen pieces slabbed as HK-482A, B, C. All of them appear to be the same as normal HK-482.

I haven't decided what I think about HK-902A since the only known example is looped.

Zoins

Thanks for the link @jonathanb!

It's interesting that none of the ATS additions posted above are on that page. Do you know who ATS is working with to assign numbers?

Zoins

Also, is it possible to add different designations for anodized aluminum Santa Monica Breakwater pieces?

Right now, the listings are:

• HK-680 Silver; Sterling on rev., below Ocean Park. 38mm.
• HK-681 Copper.
• HK-682 Bronze.
• HK-683 Brass.
• HK-684 Brass with bronze center. Center portion measures 24mm.
• HK-685 Bronze with aluminum center.
• HK-685a. Brass with aluminum center.
• HK-685b. Aluminum with brass center.
• HK-686 Nickel.
• HK-687 Aluminum.

From this thread, we have aluminum anodized pieces in blue, orange and yellow.

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/876724/hk-685-r8-santa-monica-breakwater-so-called-dollar-rarity-or-condition#latest

Can we create the following listings?

• HK-687a Aluminum with blue anodization.
• HK-687b Aluminum with orange anodization.
• HK-687c Aluminum with yellow anodization.

Zoins

Added the following to the top post. These are used by TPGs but are not on the H&K new listing page yet.

• HK-457A (ATS)
• HK-457B (ATS)
• HK-876B (PCGS)

1patwick

Jeff Shevlin maintains a So-Called Dollar Collectors Website, http://www.so-calleddollar.com/

Please check out this growing site. New blood is welcome to either look and/or join and enter into discussions on all aspects of SCD's.

Zoins

@1patwick said:
Jeff Shevlin maintains a So-Called Dollar Collectors Website, http://www.so-calleddollar.com/

Please check out this growing site. New blood is welcome to either look and/or join and enter into discussions on all aspects of SCD's.

That's a nice website and I've chatted with both Jeff and Bill, but I've posted on the forums there and they are a bit slow.

THOMAS655

Attached are pictures of my HK-650A type 3 N.E. Assoc. of Arts and Crafts So-called dollar, and my HK-600 Gilt Bronze St. Louis expo & music hall So-called dollar graded by PCGS. NGC has created a description of this medal type as HK-600B, but has not graded any of this type to date.

RogerB

Trying to identify every example of the varieties on that list will be quite a task. Weren't most sold as cheap souvenirs?

keets

Roger, collecting by "die variety" is the new thing. I view it as a legitimate endeavor but most of the subtle nuances that variety collectors look for, find and chase after don't interest me. I liken it to error collecting: some of them are nice but most are mere curiosities.

dcarr

@RogerB said:
Trying to identify every example of the varieties on that list will be quite a task. Weren't most sold as cheap souvenirs?

Would it make a difference if they were sold as expensive souvenirs ?

Zoins

@keets said:
Roger, collecting by "die variety" is the new thing. I view it as a legitimate endeavor but most of the subtle nuances that variety collectors look for, find and chase after don't interest me. I liken it to error collecting: some of them are nice but most are mere curiosities.

Varieties and errors are a natural part of collecting that grows as an area becomes more mature.

Jeff Shevlin and Bill Hyder are cataloging varieties in their new guides, like the 1 and 2 dot HK-154 obverse dies. I specifically look for errors and have two uncentered, broadstruck HK-154s. There is also one struck on a coin I’d love to pick up. So-Called Dollar errors seem to be fairly rare and are thus a fun place for me to explore.

Zoins

@RogerB said:
Trying to identify every example of the varieties on that list will be quite a task.

Is this a task you’d be up for? I recall a number of posts of yours showing interest in these.

Weren't most sold as cheap souvenirs?

Even better is that I just picked up one that was given away free to school children. The ones that were free or cheap are nice because they weren’t often saved in high grade.

BG

@1patwick said:
Jeff Shevlin maintains a So-Called Dollar Collectors Website, http://www.so-calleddollar.com/

Please check out this growing site. New blood is welcome to either look and/or join and enter into discussions on all aspects of SCD's.

Keep getting Capchas on this site?

RogerB

@Zoins said:

@RogerB said:
Trying to identify every example of the varieties on that list will be quite a task.

Is this a task you’d be up for? I recall a number of posts of yours showing interest in these.

Weren't most sold as cheap souvenirs?

Even better is that I just picked up one that was given away free to school children. The ones that were free or cheap are nice because they weren’t often saved in high grade.

Nope. I feel it would be impossible to prepare a census of these - you have no means for enumerating every item from a "universe" that was likely scattered very widely. You can assemble a representative population and record the quantities of each variety - that might create some useful information for SCD collectors. Sounds like an enjoyable project for those interested in the ad hoc series of medals.

THOMAS655

HK-11F Bombardment of Ft. Sumter in silver!

THOMAS655

THOMAS655

HK-457A Bronze MS 67

Pioneer

@Zoins said:
From this thread, we have aluminum anodized pieces in blue, orange and yellow.

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/876724/hk-685-r8-santa-monica-breakwater-so-called-dollar-rarity-or-condition#latest

Can we create the following listings?

• HK-687a Aluminum with blue anodization.
• HK-687b Aluminum with orange anodization.
• HK-687c Aluminum with yellow anodization.

I have one of these in Red and one in Green... these are the only ones I have seen in these rarer colors; the blue, orange, and yellow are more common, with blue being the most common I think.....

Zoins

@Pioneer said:

@Zoins said:
From this thread, we have aluminum anodized pieces in blue, orange and yellow.

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/876724/hk-685-r8-santa-monica-breakwater-so-called-dollar-rarity-or-condition#latest

Can we create the following listings?

• HK-687a Aluminum with blue anodization.
• HK-687b Aluminum with orange anodization.
• HK-687c Aluminum with yellow anodization.

I have one of these in Red and one in Green... these are the only ones I have seen in these rarer colors; the blue, orange, and yellow are more common, with blue being the most common I think.....

Wow. That's cool.

It would be great if these did get different HK numbers.

Zoins

@THOMAS655 said:

Love the silver Fort Sumpter medal! Looks to be in great condition!

THOMAS655

@Zoins said:

@Pioneer said:

@Zoins said:
From this thread, we have aluminum anodized pieces in blue, orange and yellow.

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/876724/hk-685-r8-santa-monica-breakwater-so-called-dollar-rarity-or-condition#latest

Can we create the following listings?

• HK-687a Aluminum with blue anodization.
• HK-687b Aluminum with orange anodization.
• HK-687c Aluminum with yellow anodization.

I have one of these in Red and one in Green... these are the only ones I have seen in these rarer colors; the blue, orange, and yellow are more common, with blue being the most common I think.....

Wow. That's cool.

It would be great if these did get different HK numbers.

Jeff Shevlin told me in the past that he believed that there were green and red anodized aluminum examples of these medals, but they were very rare. I personally have never seen this type in red or green.

Pioneer, I would love to see your red and green anodized aluminum medals. Can you please post pictures of them for the forum? Thank you in advance.

Pioneer

Here are the green and red....

THOMAS655

HAS ANYONE SEEN A HK-243B DIRECTOR-GENERAL SO-CALLED DOLLAR IN GILT ALUMINUM?

I SENT THIS TO NGC FOR GRADING, AND THEY SENT IT BACK IN A BODY BAG AS HK-243B PLATED.

JOHN RAYMOND SHOWS TWO EXAMPLES OF THIS TYPE IN HIS UPDATED 2018 TABULATION IN "GOLD PLATE", AS WELL AS A HK-243A IN "GILT ALUMINUM". THE PLATING LOOKS QUITE AUTHENTIC TO ME, BUT I GUESS NGC DOES NOT AGREE.

THOMAS655

OK, AT FIRST GLANCE, THIS APPEARS TO BE A VERY HIGH GRADE HK-643A PHILADELPHIA PEACE JUBILEE SO-CALLED DOLLAR. BUT LOOK AGAIN, THIS IS NOT COMMEMORATING THE PHILADELPHIA PEACE JUBILEE ON OCTOBER 26-27, 1898. THIS MEDAL IS COMMEMORATING THE ATLANTA PEACE JUBILEE ON DECEMBER 14-15, 1898!!

I BELIEVE NGC DID NOT QUITE KNOW WHAT TO DESIGNATE THIS MEDAL, SO THEY JUST CALLED IT A HK-643A AS IF IT WAS THE MORE COMMON PHILLY EXAMPLE. I HAVE ASKED SEVERAL COLLECTORS AND NO ONE THAT I HAVE CONTACTED HAS EVER HEARD OF AN ATLANTA VERSION OF THIS MEDAL TYPE.

THIS IS LISTED IN THE NGC CENSUS AS TOP POP OVERALL, AND ONE OF ONLY TWO DPL'S FOR HK-643A. BUT THAT IS NOT WHAT THIS MEDAL ACTUALLY IS. HAS ANYONE EVER SEEN ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF THIS MEDAL? THIS SHOULD REALLY BE A 1 OF 1 ( I SUGGESTED HK-643C TO NGC, BUT THEY DID NOT AGREE).

keets

hey Thomas, I don't know that anyone has mentioned it to you before, but posting in all Cap's is generally thought of here as SHOUTING and is mostly frowned upon. we can hear in lower case just fine.

THOMAS655

wow keets, sorry if i offended you. should i change my username to lower case as well? or maybe just quit posting information that i thought was interesting to the forum? depending on what device i am posting on, sometimes all caps is easier, but i would not want to offend anyone, or be frowned upon.

Zoins

@THOMAS655 said:
wow keets, sorry if i offended you. should i change my username to lower case as well? or maybe just quit posting information that i thought was interesting to the forum? depending on what device i am posting on, sometimes all caps is easier, but i would not want to offend anyone, or be frowned upon.

To me, your participation here and posting is way more important than whether it is in all caps or not. I’d like to think Keets’s post is just an optional suggestion and no way intended to get you to stop posting!

keets

I’d like to think Keets’s post is just an optional suggestion and no way intended to get you to stop posting!

I don't know how it could be inferred any other way.

Pioneer1

I think a good number of the washington pieces in the recent baker sale could quality as so-called dollars.... if you look at the catalog, there are many items in the 38mm range... for example, I think this would quality as an unlisted SCD....

Zoins

@Pioneer1 said:
I think a good number of the washington pieces in the recent baker sale could quality as so-called dollars.... if you look at the catalog, there are many items in the 38mm range... for example, I think this would quality as an unlisted SCD....

Definitely. John Raymond considers this an unlisted So-Called Dollar. It's cataloged as Baker-320.

Here's the page on John's site:

http://www.socalleddollar.com/aeStatues.html

@rajesinger posted the TrueView for this piece in the Baker collection sale thread

Pioneer1

Thanks @Zoins ! Glad @rajesinger got that. I spent some time comparing the recent sale catalog and John Raymond's SCD website this morning. This is another one I have a strong interest in (lots 20272 and 20273 from the auction):

... which is on Raymond's website at #90 ....

A very good acquaintance of mine is writing an article on this piece that will be coming in the Numismatist. It relates to who and when this medal was made and how the medal connects to some very early (until now) unknown medal makers. In the meanwhile, this website link discusses this piece.

http://www.angelfire.com/sc2/tokenofthemonth/token003/

Zoins

@Pioneer1 said:
Thanks @Zoins ! Glad @rajesinger got that. I spent some time comparing the recent sale catalog and John Raymond's SCD website this morning. This is another one I have a strong interest in (lots 20272 and 20273 from the auction)

Those are great medals! I think they are really beautiful and really wanted to bid on both of those but had to make the difficult decision to hold off for my core collections. Not bidding on these two and another pair of medals were among the more difficult decisions I had to make in the Baker sale.

I wonder if they were picked up by bidder 3975 or someone else.

jabba

I know you probably won’t add this one but I wanted to post it anyways

Zoins

Thanks for the posts. Keep them coming!

I just updated the first post to include HK-11F, HK-573A and HK-650A from @THOMAS655 and @jabba.

Of note, there is a collision on HK-573A as the So-CalledDollars.com website lists this as a silver-plated version of HK-573.

https://www.so-calleddollars.com/Events/Oregon_Statehood_Centennial.html

Zoins

NGC calls this HK-1000a. It's HK-1000 with a unique reverse die. It sold for $26,400.00 in 2017.

https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-8OEYW/1826-erie-canal-completion-medal-silver-3004-grams-440-mm-24-mm-thick-hk-1000a-rarity-10-unique-first-reverse-ms-63-pl-ngc

Pioneer1

Well a good number of these from Bruce Thomas changed hands (new collector homes) in yesterday's Heritage auction. Strong prices.