1873-CC Trade $1 Misplaced Date - how many types are there?

mbogoman · January 21, 2018 7:07AM

I just got this one back from our host, grading out at VF25. You can clearly see the top of the 8 and the 7 peaking out near the top of the dentils. If you're imaginative, you may also be able to see the top of the 1 about midway between two dentils. On the FS-301 variety, the 7 is at the bottom of the dentils, and you really can't see any other digits. What have I got? Is there another recognized MPD variety for the 73 CC?

First pic is my coin, second is Coinfacts of the FS-301 variety:

Crypto · January 21, 2018 10:46AM

RO is mostly right, but It isn’t a die crack under the wing it is a clash on the 1.0mm rev

There are two MPDs, just a 7 and an 8 & 7.

The wides are known paired with the FS301 (just 7) and all wide 1.2s are also fs301. The 301 are know with 3 different rev dies. The 1.0mm with the fs301 is a pretty rare coin. Few have that obv.

The coin you posted above is the FS302 which is the bolder but minor RPD (8 & 7) and not the one in the registry

mbogoman · January 21, 2018 10:47AM

@afford said:
There is a 1.2mm extra wide CC & a 1.0mm is the wide cc but less than the 1.2mm, so I assume you have one of each. The 1.2mm extra wide cc is the rarest of the two. You can easily see differentiate the two since it is easy to be fooled by the similar distance between the cc's by looking on the reverse and the less wide 1.0 has a die crack under the left wing between the leg and the wing.

Thanks, but I'm not talking about the mint mark, I'm talking about the misplaced date digits located in the dentils beneath the date. Zoom in and look closely at both pictures.o

mbogoman · January 21, 2018 10:48AM

@Crypto said:
RO is mostly right, but It isn’t a die crack under the wing it is a clash on the 1.0mm rev

There are two MPDs, just a 7 and an 8 & 7.

The wides are known paired with the FS301 (just 7) and all wide 1.2s are also fs301. The 301 are know with 3 different rev dies. The 1.0mm with the fs301 is a pretty rare coin. Few have that obv.

The coin you posted above is the FS302 which is the bolder but minor RPD (8 & 7) and not the one in the registry

Thanks for the clarification, John!

Crypto · January 21, 2018 10:50AM

Any time. Pretty sure that is andy’s Fs301

Couple of notes. The fs302 is listed in the cherry pickers book but not pictured. One must look in the back in the summery. Thus PCGS will certify it as a minor variety at cost

Most 1.0mm have the classic very weak sinister leg and can picked online from bad photos between the 1.2 using that. Isn’t 100% but maybe 90%+

Crypto · January 21, 2018 11:06AM

@afford said:

@mbogoman said:

@afford said:
There is a 1.2mm extra wide CC & a 1.0mm is the wide cc but less than the 1.2mm, so I assume you have one of each. The 1.2mm extra wide cc is the rarest of the two. You can easily see differentiate the two since it is easy to be fooled by the similar distance between the cc's by looking on the reverse and the less wide 1.0 has a die crack under the left wing between the leg and the wing.

Thanks, but I'm not talking about the mint mark, I'm talking about the misplaced date digits located in the dentils beneath the date. Zoom in and look closely at both pictures.o

Well that is what I am talking about. The 1.2 extra wide comes with mpd in the dentils and the 1.0 also comes with mpd's in the dentils. I believe there might be more but those are the two that I look for all the time and are easier to pick up since you know that the cc's are either 1.2 & 1.0

Most 1.0mm are not MPDs, all 1.2mm are.

Crypto · January 21, 2018 11:11AM

Oops I meant MPDs

Crypto · January 21, 2018 11:19AM

Nice examples, yes as I said 3 different rev dies for the 301. Never seen someone with all three before. Don’t think even joe has them all

You mixed up your pictures, I don’t see the 1.0 rev

Crypto · January 21, 2018 11:29AM

Ok see the 1.0 now but don’t see the MPDon the OBV. Nice example either way. I recognize that coin. Tennessee Dave Picked it raw off Ebay and sold it eventually to Shish who offered it around. Only didn’t buy it because it wasn’t the MPD.

For those following
Note the clash under the dexter wing and the weak leg. Pick up points vs the 1.2mm

That 1.2mm is a nice example. Know about 6 people actively looking for one.

Crypto · January 21, 2018 11:44AM

@afford said:

@Crypto said:
Ok see the 1.0 now but don’t see the MPDon the OBV. Nice example either way. I recognize that coin. Tennessee Dave Picked it raw off Ebay and sold it eventually to Shish who offered it around. Only didn’t buy it because it wasn’t the MPD.

For those following
Note the clash under the dexter wing and the weak leg. Pick up points vs the 1.2mm

That 1.2mm is a nice example. Know about 6 people actively looking for one.

I could be wrong but I thought I saw something between the 8 & 7 of 1873.

I have had a glass to that coin and it isn’t one (FS301 MPD) IMO. That is sort of the weird part of all this. The FS301 is fairly minor and faint (although found on two popular Rev varieties) but considered a major cherry picker variety. The bold easy to see FS302 is almost an after thought. Maybe because it is much more common, at least in the scope of rare 1873cc trade dollars that is.

If I had to guess 25% of all 73cc I have handled are the FS302 and maybe 40% of the heavily circulated examples. (VF and bellow)

Crypto · January 21, 2018 11:53AM

@afford said:

@Crypto said:

@afford said:

@Crypto said:
Ok see the 1.0 now but don’t see the MPDon the OBV. Nice example either way. I recognize that coin. Tennessee Dave Picked it raw off Ebay and sold it eventually to Shish who offered it around. Only didn’t buy it because it wasn’t the MPD.

For those following
Note the clash under the dexter wing and the weak leg. Pick up points vs the 1.2mm

That 1.2mm is a nice example. Know about 6 people actively looking for one.

I could be wrong but I thought I saw something between the 8 & 7 of 1873.

I have had a glass to that coin and it isn’t one IMO. That is sort of the weird part of all this. The FS301 is fairly minor and faint (although found on two popular Rev varieties) but considered a major cherry picker variety. The bold easy to see FS302 is almost an after thought. Maybe because it is much more common, at least in the scope of rare 1873cc trade dollars that is.

I can accept that, I didn't have a glass to it so I will defer to your opinion since you saw it in hand with mag and I am relying only on the photo.

Still one of the better 1.0mm I have seen, I have been passively looking for a 1.0mm with the MPD obv and have only seen very low end problem coins over the last decade. In a perfect world I would replace my primary 73cc that I sold to Dan with a choice AU 53ish 1.0mm MPD but that might not exist. Since I am dreaming, extra credit for a choice couple of chops and semi PL skin would be great

Crypto · January 21, 2018 12:07PM

@afford said:

@Crypto said:
RO is mostly right, but It isn’t a die crack under the wing it is a clash on the 1.0mm rev

There are two MPDs, just a 7 and an 8 & 7.

The wides are known paired with the FS301 (just 7) and all wide 1.2s are also fs301. The 301 are know with 3 different rev dies. The 1.0mm with the fs301 is a pretty rare coin. Few have that obv.

The coin you posted above is the FS302 which is the bolder but minor RPD (8 & 7) and not the one in the registry

I called what you call a clash a die crack not only because that is what I thought it looked like but also because that is what Joe Kirchgessner described it as on page 607 in Issue #69 July 1997 in the Gobrecht Journal. If you are now saying that Joe is incorrect I would very much like confirmation of this since this would be a new change.

Joe was wrong 20 years ago, I don’t remember but I am pretty sure he was the one who taught me it was a clash. Which has been confirmed by modern overlays

It is a clash and the great part about the GJ is that it gets peer reviewed by coin guys every issue.

mbogoman · January 21, 2018 12:15PM

@Crypto said:
Ok see the 1.0 now but don’t see the MPDon the OBV. Nice example either way. I recognize that coin. Tennessee Dave Picked it raw off Ebay and sold it eventually to Shish who offered it around. Only didn’t buy it because it wasn’t the MPD.

For those following
Note the clash under the dexter wing and the weak leg. Pick up points vs the 1.2mm

That 1.2mm is a nice example. Know about 6 people actively looking for one.

Me being one of them!

mbogoman · January 21, 2018 12:19PM

Mine (coin in OP) is the "neither" reverse from above...

Wabbit2313 · January 21, 2018 12:24PM

Crypto · January 21, 2018 12:43PM

That isn’t either MPD but a totally decent 73cc. AU53?

Crypto · January 21, 2018 12:43PM

@mbogoman said:
Mine (coin in OP) is the "neither" reverse from above...

>
The three rev dies only apply to the 301.

Wabbit2313 · January 21, 2018 12:53PM

Insider2 · January 22, 2018 2:12PM

Here is one with a strong MPD.

Crypto · January 22, 2018 2:31PM

Nice 302

Insider2 · January 22, 2018 2:41PM

@Crypto said:
Nice 302

This looks like a different reverse also. Is it?

I remember this reverse was seen in a thread with a chopped up '74.

Crypto · January 22, 2018 3:37PM

I have seen the scratch through the D before too. Pretty sure on a 74cc but that is a question for Joe

Insider2 · January 22, 2018 3:38PM

It's on a 74-CC reverse.

PS Joe K. LSCC?

Crypto · January 22, 2018 3:55PM

Correct Joe K

Insider2 · January 22, 2018 4:02PM

I need to meet both of you one day.

1873-CC Trade $1 Misplaced Date - how many types are there?

Comments

Leave a Comment