Was checking out the new PSA Auction Prices realized feature
KendallCat
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First off let me say this is a cool tool, and can't see a reason to keep VCP with this new tool. Same info, shows images, so why would anyone pay $17-19 a month when you can get it for free? Was checking a few cards and noticed something and wanted to see if anyone else noticed this as well. Images provided.
KC
2
Comments
Looks like 2 different cards with the same cert.
Keith...
Heritage is noted for enhancing images...is this what you're implying?
The centering is different and the top pic has the black print dot above Mickey's cap
Two different cards to me. The implication therefore is very disconcerting.
Instagram: mattyc_collection
No way that is the same card. How does heritage look so much brighter on the white areas? If either one is somehow not the correct picture it is the top one I would guess.
the toning is off. A pale white farm boy from Oklahoma or A tanned red-neck version from NY.
the top border looks thicker on the top card especially towards the right corner.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Two different cards, no doubt about it
Goodwin and Mile High both sold the bottom one. The label is a little different on the cards also.
James
I voted with my pocketbook as well and terminated my VCP subscription. I find the tool good enough for my needs and like that it contains modern, non-sports, etc.
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KC---well done. thanks....def 2 diff cards and if modern prices are also included then im sold.
how easy it to use comparatively?
Thanks for the responses and sorry for the delay. Was just cruising through and checking 56 Mantle's in 8 and 8.5, and noticed the same cert number on the cards from different sellers - have a little bit of a photographic memory although sometimes there is no film in the camera
When I looked at the cards I noticed the same cert #, but the cards were different. Most notably the bottom left corner was pointed on one and rough on the other, and the black dot above Mickeys hat is gone. My question is how does the same card with the same grade and cert number change appearances like that?
KC
One other thing of note is look at the centering using the upper right corner. On one card it looks dead centered, and on the other example it is clearly not dead centered. Very odd.
When I look at the 8.5 on the grade part of the flip, the distance between the dot and the 5 sure looks different to me between the two of them, with a wider gap on the bottom scan. Same distance discrepancy between the # and the 1 on the card number part of the flip too.
How far apart were these auctions?? Is it possible the card was sent for a review to get a possible bumb and they put it in a different case with the same serial number or possibly cracked slab?? Just throwing things out there to see what sticks.
Someone needs to bring this to the attention of Joe Orlando or someone else at PSA. I'm not sure what they could do at this point but I think they need to be aware of the situation.
James
IIRC one was sold in 2008 (Heritage) and the last was Goodwin in 2015 or 2016. My question is where did the black dot go above his hat when it was sold in the Goodwin auction? Also, why is the centering different between the cards from one auction to the next?
KC
My two cents.
I think they are the same card. The top example is over exposed. Intentional or not it causes the bright white issue. The spot appears to be on the holder or scanner not the card.
The centering differences are caused by the Cards placement in the holder itself and the position on the scanner. If you have a card where the side is up against the (sorry don’t know the proper technical term) small plastic pieces inside the holder that keep the card in place it skews the edge often times creating the appearance of a bigger boarder. I call it a LPT. Little Plastic Thingy.
In the two images the top the card is against the top edge and left edge of the holder. The lower image is against the bottom and right edge.
In the photo below notice how the edge appears to extend out farther to the right once it is obscured by the LPT.
Kevin
Kevin
In both images, the bottom border is above, or "clears" the bottom "inner ridge" of the holder. And so in both images, no sliver of the bottom border is obscured by that inner ridge. In other words, in both images, both bottom borders are in complete view. And the thickness of the bottom border in the two images is not the same.
The bottom border on the top card is visibly thinner, the bottom border on the bottom card is thicker.
It is true that card placement within the holder can affect the perception of centering, yet that is not the case here.
While Heritage certainly over-exposes their scans, with contrast settings that effectively bleach the borders, it is worth noting that the top card displays the black print dot in the top border that many 56 Mantles have (above the cap).
And yet in the bottom scan— the scan without the bleached contrast setting— the print dot is not present. That is further visual proof these are two different cards.
One card therefore has to have been a fake flip with a likely real card inside which looks the part.
As has been pointed out above, there are text spacing differences in the flips as well, in the .5 and the card #.
Instagram: mattyc_collection
This biggest indicator for me is the PSA # itself. Look at the "6" and how close the upper curve comes to touching on one vs. the other.
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The biggest lesson I've learned in this hobby, and in life, is that if you have a strong conviction, you owe it to yourself to see it through. Don't sell yourself, or your investments, short. Unless the facts change. Then sell it all.
I could be wrong, but I think the one in heritage is actually a white back. The back centering is also obviously different.
Keep in mind, the Heritage auction is almost 10 years old, so this may have already been resolved, especially since the one that looks real has been reholdered - the latest auction had a front hologram.
Here are the two cards blown up showing the upper right corner and both are the same size. Photo 1 shows a black dot above the NY on Mickey's hat, and the centering on the right edge and upper edge looks to be almost 50/50 - same thickness on the side as on the top of the border. Plus the border is clean and white and no rough edges.
The second card shows no black dot above the NY on the hat, the right edge is clearly thicker than the top edge(where in the other photo they are even), and the upper corner has some rough edges which are not apparent on the first photo. Same cert # on both cards but clearly two different cards. Definitely needs an explanation for sure.
The dot is not on the holder or scanner since it is actually found on several other Mantle cards from 56 - occurs about 10% of the time - see below scan of a difference Mantle with a different cert # and same dot.
KC
The flip on the bottom card looks fake, the lettering doesn't look right to me. The T's and the 6's are a dead giveaway plus the spacing looks off. I just pulled a bunch of cards from new to old flips and this one is way off. I would guess if the bottom card with the PD on his nose and the touched up top left corner was a 7.5 or an 8 at one time (unless the card isn't authentic).
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Tim
That was a great catch KC.
Apparently my 2¢ is worth considerably less. Thanks to those who took the time to break it down and explain in detail what they were seeing. Lesson much appreciated.
Kevin
Kevin
Your naming of the Little Plastic Thingy was definitely worth your 2 cents. Dilly Dilly!
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Not sure if there's a technical term, I've been using 'rails' for the inner holder. LPT may be my go to from now on.
I think this is a good catch. You have to look really hard at many PSA cert #'s to make sure a 6 is not an 8.
Also, wrt the print dot, I know in some scans the decimal point of the grade is not there as the dust removal feature eliminates it. However, that doesn't explain the apparent difference in the size of the borders.
PSA is very aware of fake cards like one of these certainly is...both of these holders preceded the NEW HOLOGRAM and security instituted last year....they were instituted for this above example.... MANY, many card holders were exploited by professional fraudsters.... PSA had to do something...thats how vast a problem it was..... and may still be. Taking a PSA 5 Mantle for example and putting in a copy of a PSA 9 Mint label .... voila ...u have a PSA 9 40k card.