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AYPE, Hk-367a, different obverse pictures in 1st & 2nd Editions of "So Called Dollars"
1patwick
Posts: 116 ✭✭✭
The 2 differences in HK-367 and HK-367a are, 1. Brass vs. Bronze (weight diff. of 1.5g) and 2. Obverse, bottom of middle woman's dress pleats. The problem is, each "So Called Dollars" edition shows a different obverse. I have an NGC graded HK-367... but which one? I'm curious of the safeguards PCGS uses to differentiate a medal in this situation.
Is/was ignorance really bliss?
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The 2nd ed book and website only have 1 photo for both HK-367 and HK-367a. The HK photo specimen is from HA which NGC 2204631-005 shows as HK-367:
HA: https://coins.ha.com/itm/so-called-dollars/tokens-and-medals/1909-us-gov-t-bldg-hk-367-ms64-prooflike-ngc/a/427-81241.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515
2nd ed Book: https://books.google.com/books?id=15AyBb3RCtkC&q=367#v=snippet&q=367&f=false
Website: http://www.so-calleddollars.com/Events/Alaska_Yukon_Pacific.html
Here is a HK-367a specimen as cataloged by NGC:
https://coins.ha.com/itm/so-called-dollars/tokens-and-medals/1909-alaska-yukon-pacific-exposition-us-government-building-hk-367a-ms62-prooflike-ngc/a/1235-98780.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515
@1patwick Can you post the photo used in the 1st edition?
Happy holidays! Here is a photo of the obverse of the 1st Edition HK- 367
Wow, they are different! Sharp eye @1patwick!
Here are large photos for the 1st edition and 2nd edition specimens. Looks like these should be different varieties.
The 2nd ed. HK-367 photo and the EPN NGC HK-367a look like they may use the same obverse die. The HK 1st ed. photo could be HK-367 and the HK 2nd ed. photo could be HK-367a or something else.
This one from Bill Hayden looks similar to the HA 427-81241 "HK-367a", perhaps an earlier die state.
http://www.coinpeople.com/topic/30920-1909-alaska-yukon-pacific-exposition/?page=2&tab=comments#comment-572004
Beautiful! Do you have a spare?
Old Thread Update
@1patwick Sorry I missed out on posting to this. I didn't have one at the time but have a long pleats variety now. Which variety do you have?
@jonathanb Any thoughts on issuing different HK numbers for the two die varieties here, or for others? The long and short dress pleats varieties are fairly obvious.
Is there a distinction made on these in the new SH So-Called Dollar guide? I know they are going to make a differentiation between the one and two dot varieties for HK-154 so it would make sense for them to track these as well.
Ok Forum, I need your help.
This medal appears to be bronze, not brass. NGC has graded this medal as as HK-367 brass Uncirculated Details Environmental Damage. I guess that they assume the brass has been environmentally damaged, making the medal have this dark coloring.
I believe that this medal is Bronze HK-367A. When I called NGC after the medal was returned to me in the slab, NGC told me that they do not believe that this medal type was ever struck in bronze, therefore their reasoning for the attribution attached.
What does the forum think?
I find it odd that NGC won't certify HK-367A given that it's in the HK 2nd edition and they have certified 1 in the NGC census.
Also, nice Bruce Thomas provenance:
Thanks Zoins. I was very surprised and overjoyed with this award from NGC for my collection. NGC does these awards in January of each year, and I had no idea that I had won until I received a plaque in the mail from them last month. They also gifted me with $500.00 grading credit, which I have used for a submission that I currently have with them.
Obverse, bottom of middle woman's dress pleats.
unless you can point to other PUP's on the "variety" I see nothing more than a strike anomaly or perhaps the result of some die polishing. the medal with the stronger dress pleats tends to have better central detail. I suggest asking from some coin guys on the forum to get some input.