@KollectorKing said: "Insider2 Instead of mumbling & jumbling us to death about your superior grading skills & observation skills, can you answer this: I wonder how this coin received a green sticker...In less than 50 words?"
What a snarky little message. You don't deserve a reply and should apologize right now!
LOL! Fifty words? Bait....me, not on your life. Skip down to the bottom as I did what you asked in only eleven.
I have said absolutely nothing anywhere/anytime about having superior grading skills. I know some YN's who make all of us (that's you, your sidekick, and me) look like rear ends! Check my GTG record and I am in always the bottom 10%.
As for "mumbling & Jumbling" - I use English and back up my opinions. Except for perhaps a few members here, I have found that folks with even a limited intellect can understand me. I have said on forums that I have been a professional numismatist for over 45 years. I have also said I have been in a few grading and authentication seminars. I have said that I see things on magnified coin images because I have been studying coins with a stereo microscope for over 45 years. I have also said that in my experience many collectors and dealers cannot grade - even some that have been numismatists longer than I have! None of that says anything about having superior grading skills.
I learn new things every day while looking at coins. The folks who work at the TPGS, CAC, and those "sharks-of-the-coin-floor" that make a living buying and selling raw or slabbed coins are the superior graders. Are you one of them?
Additionally, I know what I don't know. I know virtually nothing about CAC, its operations or how it grades coins. Based on what I have read on CU this year I think a green bean means CAC agrees with the grade on the label and a gold bean means the coin could grade higher. I think the grades are divided into A, B, and C and a coin needs to be in the top half (B to A) to qualify for a bean. I think JA will buy any CAC graded slab sight unseen. I don't have a clue about their fee schedule. Oh, and CAC is in NJ. I'll guarantee that you know more about CAC and its workings/policies than I do.
Now, to answer your silly question. The coin got a green bean because CAC gave it one! Get educated, the coin is an MS-63.
@KollectorKing said:
"The '02-S puts it to shame. As a common date I'd value it at $1100. it's better than a strong majority of the 64's"
I'll buy as many 02-S that look like that, in fact all pcgs graded ms63 (pop 10), at that price.
You better check coinfacts next time before you shoot yourself in the foot.
Your attitude does not well behoove you, chimp.
I have 40 years at this and quite a few years All-Pro.
So I don't think your attitude and the authoritative reference to CoinFacts qualify you for the OK Corral.
Dave Akers schooled me long before Steve Duckor and @TahoeDale, and happily both of them have schooled me too. In my 1956 Redbook, it was likely a common date, so your late-breaking news and attendant insights are useful.
By pricing it as a common date, I hoped to illustrate the true value of very PQ material relative to the "acceptable" while using the is a common date 07-O price level.
Make one wonder whose backyard some other species' SETI probe lands on and what a powerful impact those butterfly's wings could have for (Oh the) humanity!
lol another insider2 type of response...oh well...whatever....
@Insider2 and myself have, combined, about 80 years of very high level accumulated knowledge and function quite well as nationally-known members of our hobby's institutional memory. As irritated as I might be at your assault on my self-importance, I respond primarily to alert others that your confidence is based on ignorance sufficient to qualify you for the highest of political aspirations.
80 years can't compare to being the self proclaimed Kollector King. Sorry his title out ranks your experience. The Burger King trumps all of you
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
The scratch covers a large portion of the coin and jumps out immediately. The reeding mark isn't inconsequential either, nor are the other marks. How is that micro grading? It certainly sounds like macro grading to me.
Macro-grading implies grading the coin as a gestalt, which means consideration of its virtues and its faults.
The hairline scratch does not cover "a large portion of the coin". The brightness of its disruption is nowhere as distracting as that of the three reeding marks.
I personally find the goiter more distracting, "as made" notwithstanding. An eye appeal rather than technical issue.
The coin has been less-than-optimally dipped and some retoning has taken place.
I grade the coin
1) Marks = 63
2) Lustre = B-
3) Strike = A-
4) Overall appeal = B-
I don't like it very much, and neither would many serious students of the series.
It's not PQ; it's not PU. It's barely OK. It's $700 "market-acceptable", which can be translated into "enough will value it as such for that grade range". Is that cynical? Or just unromantic. AKA realistic.
The '02-S puts it to shame. As a common date, I'd buy/sell at $900/$1050. it's better than a strong majority of the 64's I (and you) see.
Am I going thru Kool-Aid withdrawal?
Nothing meta-symbolic to see here, folks. Just a run-of-the-mill 63 coin decent enough that you are "safe" at the commensurate price level. Acceptable is a continuum, not a discontinuous data point.
Spend 10 minutes in the Heritage Archives with "Barber 50c MS63". A quick comparison of 200 CAC and "all" will help with some perspective.
Obviously, I cannot compete with your experience from the grading room, but your post raises a lot of questions. Yes, there are a lot of mediocre coins in the Heritage archives, but I still like many of them better than this one. I cannot get past the scratch and have seen many coins bagged in the past for damage/scratches that were less distracting than this coin. This raises a larger question of what is considered market acceptable for scratches and how much are these net graded under current standards? When do body bags (or details grades nowadays) come into the mix? There definitely seems to be a huge disconnect between the standards when I first started collecting/my personal standards and the prevailing market standards. Ditto for CAC. I have seen a lot of bust coinage with deep staple scratches (not adjustment marks - I know the difference) that are given a pass and for me, it would be a stopper except for the most elusive issues.
@KollectorKing said: "You better check coinfacts next time before you shoot yourself in the foot.
As soon as I read this sentence I knew what was coming... I was going to PM this poster and recommend that he Edit out that sentence but I changed my mind. I am still so choked up with laughter that I am not going to be able to fall asleep without a drink! Talk about kicking a big Gorilla in the nuts. Still ROTFL. Cannot catch my breath.
@KollectorKing said: @Insider2 Instead of mumbling & jumbling us to death about your superior grading skills & observation skills, can you answer this: I wonder how this coin received a green sticker...
In less than 50 words?
Someone submitted the coin to CAC. JA and crew liked it, so they put a sticker on it. I somehow doubt that is the answer you were looking for.
@cameonut2011 replied: "Obviously, I cannot compete with your experience from the grading room, but your post raises a lot of questions. Yes, there are a lot of mediocre coins in the Heritage archives, but I still like many of them better than this one. I cannot get past the scratch and have seen many coins bagged in the past for damage/scratches that were less distracting than this coin. This raises a larger question of what is considered market acceptable for scratches and how much are these net graded under current standards? When do body bags (or details grades nowadays) come into the mix? There definitely seems to be a huge disconnect between the standards when I first started collecting/my personal standards and the prevailing market standards. Ditto for CAC. I have seen a lot of bust coinage with deep staple scratches (not adjustment marks - I know the difference) that are given a pass and for me, it would be a stopper except for the most elusive issues."
Great, well thought out post. I'm in the boat with you as my personal standards have absolutely no relation to the market. At one time they did but grading standards have evolved.
The scratch covers a large portion of the coin and jumps out immediately. The reeding mark isn't inconsequential either, nor are the other marks. How is that micro grading? It certainly sounds like macro grading to me.
Macro-grading implies grading the coin as a gestalt, which means consideration of its virtues and its faults.
The hairline scratch does not cover "a large portion of the coin". The brightness of its disruption is nowhere as distracting as that of the three reeding marks.
I personally find the goiter more distracting, "as made" notwithstanding. An eye appeal rather than technical issue.
The coin has been less-than-optimally dipped and some retoning has taken place.
I grade the coin
1) Marks = 63
2) Lustre = B-
3) Strike = A-
4) Overall appeal = B-
I don't like it very much, and neither would many serious students of the series.
It's not PQ; it's not PU. It's barely OK. It's $700 "market-acceptable", which can be translated into "enough will value it as such for that grade range". Is that cynical? Or just unromantic. AKA realistic.
The '02-S puts it to shame. As a common date, I'd buy/sell at $900/$1050. it's better than a strong majority of the 64's I (and you) see.
Am I going thru Kool-Aid withdrawal?
Nothing meta-symbolic to see here, folks. Just a run-of-the-mill 63 coin decent enough that you are "safe" at the commensurate price level. Acceptable is a continuum, not a discontinuous data point.
Spend 10 minutes in the Heritage Archives with "Barber 50c MS63". A quick comparison of 200 CAC and "all" will help with some perspective.
Obviously, I cannot compete with your experience from the grading room, but your post raises a lot of questions. Yes, there are a lot of mediocre coins in the Heritage archives, but I still like many of them better than this one. I cannot get past the scratch and have seen many coins bagged in the past for damage/scratches that were less distracting than this coin. This raises a larger question of what is considered market acceptable for scratches and how much are these net graded under current standards? When do body bags (or details grades nowadays) come into the mix? There definitely seems to be a huge disconnect between the standards when I first started collecting/my personal standards and the prevailing market standards. Ditto for CAC. I have seen a lot of bust coinage with deep staple scratches (not adjustment marks - I know the difference) that are given a pass and for me, it would be a stopper except for the most elusive issues.
I can only discuss this one 07-O. And it's a picture, so we're behind the eight-ball already.
To me, MS63 is a mediocre technical grade for Barber type. I "made" the James A. Stack 1901-S 25c in PCGS MS67 (now CAC) from cracking the NGC MS66 in 1989. I can tell you what's wrong with it as well as what's nice.
Consider the grading continuum from MS70 downwards.
Very few minute problems might knock down a grade to and yet allow 69.
68 could be two such minute problems or one more serious one.
67 could be three such minute problems or one minute and one more serious.
The lower the grade, the more different ways the grade can go down. Marks, lustre, strike.
The conflicts and dissonances may vary more erratically, but I'm starting to prattle.
Stipulate for now that the lustre is barely adequate and the strike only relevant as a non-detraction.
You are more distracted by what you experience as the bright metal of the hair-line scratch than what appears to me to be more and brighter exposed raw metal with more irregular contours in those reeding marks. It's not binary; it's a matter of degree and nature of the "badness".
PM me to set it up and we'll spend 15 minutes on the phone this weekend glomming 10 (not 200) jewels and junk in the 62-64 range in the HA archives and we'll both get something out of it.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
"The 1902-S Half Dollar is one of the most underrated dates in the series. Based on the PCGS Population Report alone, the 1902-S has the smallest total population of any date except for the 1892-O. Contrary to David Akers' statement, the 1902-S is rarer than the 1902-O, but only by a slight margin. Mint State 1902-S Half Dollars tend toward the lower end of the scale -- usually MS62 to MS63. Gems are very rare and anything better than MS66 is a true condition-rarity. The finest examples are a pair of PCGS MS67+'s, both of which are illustrated above."
"The 1902-S Half Dollar is one of the most underrated dates in the series. Based on the PCGS Population Report alone, the 1902-S has the smallest total population of any date except for the 1892-O. Contrary to David Akers' statement, the 1902-S is rarer than the 1902-O, but only by a slight margin. Mint State 1902-S Half Dollars tend toward the lower end of the scale -- usually MS62 to MS63. Gems are very rare and anything better than MS66 is a true condition-rarity. The finest examples are a pair of PCGS MS67+'s, both of which are illustrated above."
"The 1902-S Half Dollar is one of the most underrated dates in the series. Based on the PCGS Population Report alone, the 1902-S has the smallest total population of any date except for the 1892-O. Contrary to David Akers' statement, the 1902-S is rarer than the 1902-O, but only by a slight margin. Mint State 1902-S Half Dollars tend toward the lower end of the scale -- usually MS62 to MS63. Gems are very rare and anything better than MS66 is a true condition-rarity. The finest examples are a pair of PCGS MS67+'s, both of which are illustrated above."
I've known Ron for over 30 years.
Before he devoted himself full-time to PCGS and Coinfacts he was arguably the best auctioneer in the business.
Is it typing mechanics or unconscious that, as you quote him, you also pee on him.. SAD! VERY SAD!!
Asked and answered with a hopefully more intelligible explication of "as a common date" as not being "is a common date"**.
Your quote of Coinfacts is essentially useless and irrelevant in the context of the issue addressed by yourself.
Deflection is a sometimes useful debating technique, but observers eventually note the BS quotient and start to progressively further discount the aforementioned utterances. This may get you elected, but......
On the other hand, as a priest-friend of mine who was involved in rooting out spoiled priests once told me "The higher up the ladder you go, the easier it is to see your ass"
As socio-sexually inappropriate as it might be, I almost always laugh when I see someone "mooning".
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
I was looking at this Walker recently, and the reed mark on the sun jumped out, and the coin is a gem, I'm just curious how reed mark hits should impact grade:
Comments
@KollectorKing said: "Insider2 Instead of mumbling & jumbling us to death about your superior grading skills & observation skills, can you answer this: I wonder how this coin received a green sticker...In less than 50 words?"
What a snarky little
message. You don't deserve a reply and should apologize right now!
LOL!
Fifty words? Bait....me, not on your life. Skip down to the bottom as I did what you asked in only eleven. 
I have said absolutely nothing anywhere/anytime about having superior grading skills. I know some YN's who make all of us (that's you, your sidekick, and me) look like rear ends! Check my GTG record and I am in always the bottom 10%.
As for "mumbling & Jumbling" - I use English and back up my opinions. Except for perhaps a few members here, I have found that folks with even a limited intellect can understand me. I have said on forums that I have been a professional numismatist for over 45 years. I have also said I have been in a few grading and authentication seminars. I have said that I see things on magnified coin images because I have been studying coins with a stereo microscope for over 45 years. I have also said that in my experience many collectors and dealers cannot grade - even some that have been numismatists longer than I have! None of that says anything about having superior grading skills.
I learn new things every day while looking at coins. The folks who work at the TPGS, CAC, and those "sharks-of-the-coin-floor" that make a living buying and selling raw or slabbed coins are the superior graders. Are you one of them?
Additionally, I know what I don't know. I know virtually nothing about CAC, its operations or how it grades coins. Based on what I have read on CU this year I think a green bean means CAC agrees with the grade on the label and a gold bean means the coin could grade higher. I think the grades are divided into A, B, and C and a coin needs to be in the top half (B to A) to qualify for a bean. I think JA will buy any CAC graded slab sight unseen. I don't have a clue about their fee schedule. Oh, and CAC is in NJ. I'll guarantee that you know more about CAC and its workings/policies than I do.
Now, to answer your silly question. The coin got a green bean because CAC gave it one! Get educated, the coin is an MS-63.
80 years can't compare to being the self proclaimed Kollector King. Sorry his title out ranks your experience. The Burger King trumps all of you
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Obviously, I cannot compete with your experience from the grading room, but your post raises a lot of questions. Yes, there are a lot of mediocre coins in the Heritage archives, but I still like many of them better than this one. I cannot get past the scratch and have seen many coins bagged in the past for damage/scratches that were less distracting than this coin. This raises a larger question of what is considered market acceptable for scratches and how much are these net graded under current standards? When do body bags (or details grades nowadays) come into the mix? There definitely seems to be a huge disconnect between the standards when I first started collecting/my personal standards and the prevailing market standards. Ditto for CAC. I have seen a lot of bust coinage with deep staple scratches (not adjustment marks - I know the difference) that are given a pass and for me, it would be a stopper except for the most elusive issues.
@KollectorKing said: "You better check coinfacts next time before you shoot yourself in the foot.
As soon as I read this sentence I knew what was coming... I was going to PM this poster and recommend that he Edit out that sentence but I changed my mind. I am still so choked up with laughter that I am not going to be able to fall asleep without a drink! Talk about kicking a big Gorilla in the nuts. Still ROTFL. Cannot catch my breath.
Someone submitted the coin to CAC. JA and crew liked it, so they put a sticker on it.
I somehow doubt that is the answer you were looking for. 
@cameonut2011 replied: "Obviously, I cannot compete with your experience from the grading room, but your post raises a lot of questions. Yes, there are a lot of mediocre coins in the Heritage archives, but I still like many of them better than this one. I cannot get past the scratch and have seen many coins bagged in the past for damage/scratches that were less distracting than this coin. This raises a larger question of what is considered market acceptable for scratches and how much are these net graded under current standards? When do body bags (or details grades nowadays) come into the mix? There definitely seems to be a huge disconnect between the standards when I first started collecting/my personal standards and the prevailing market standards. Ditto for CAC. I have seen a lot of bust coinage with deep staple scratches (not adjustment marks - I know the difference) that are given a pass and for me, it would be a stopper except for the most elusive issues."
Great, well thought out post. I'm in the boat with you as my personal standards have absolutely no relation to the market. At one time they did but grading standards have evolved.
I can only discuss this one 07-O. And it's a picture, so we're behind the eight-ball already.
To me, MS63 is a mediocre technical grade for Barber type. I "made" the James A. Stack 1901-S 25c in PCGS MS67 (now CAC) from cracking the NGC MS66 in 1989. I can tell you what's wrong with it as well as what's nice.
Consider the grading continuum from MS70 downwards.
Very few minute problems might knock down a grade to and yet allow 69.
68 could be two such minute problems or one more serious one.
67 could be three such minute problems or one minute and one more serious.
The lower the grade, the more different ways the grade can go down. Marks, lustre, strike.
The conflicts and dissonances may vary more erratically, but I'm starting to prattle.
Stipulate for now that the lustre is barely adequate and the strike only relevant as a non-detraction.
You are more distracted by what you experience as the bright metal of the hair-line scratch than what appears to me to be more and brighter exposed raw metal with more irregular contours in those reeding marks. It's not binary; it's a matter of degree and nature of the "badness".
PM me to set it up and we'll spend 15 minutes on the phone this weekend glomming 10 (not 200) jewels and junk in the 62-64 range in the HA archives and we'll both get something out of it.
Pee Ron Guth:
"The 1902-S Half Dollar is one of the most underrated dates in the series. Based on the PCGS Population Report alone, the 1902-S has the smallest total population of any date except for the 1892-O. Contrary to David Akers' statement, the 1902-S is rarer than the 1902-O, but only by a slight margin. Mint State 1902-S Half Dollars tend toward the lower end of the scale -- usually MS62 to MS63. Gems are very rare and anything better than MS66 is a true condition-rarity. The finest examples are a pair of PCGS MS67+'s, both of which are illustrated above."
There's an error in this statement! The 92-O is well up the list Pop wise unless he meant to say 92-O "micro O"!
Crack it out and re-submit the coin. This will help people understand the meaning of folly.
I've known Ron for over 30 years.
SAD! VERY SAD!!
Before he devoted himself full-time to PCGS and Coinfacts he was arguably the best auctioneer in the business.
Is it typing mechanics or unconscious that, as you quote him, you also pee on him..
Asked and answered with a hopefully more intelligible explication of "as a common date" as not being "is a common date"**.
Your quote of Coinfacts is essentially useless and irrelevant in the context of the issue addressed by yourself.
Deflection is a sometimes useful debating technique, but observers eventually note the BS quotient and start to progressively further discount the aforementioned utterances. This may get you elected, but......
On the other hand, as a priest-friend of mine who was involved in rooting out spoiled priests once told me "The higher up the ladder you go, the easier it is to see your ass"
As socio-sexually inappropriate as it might be, I almost always laugh when I see someone "mooning".
I was looking at this Walker recently, and the reed mark on the sun jumped out, and the coin is a gem, I'm just curious how reed mark hits should impact grade: