The on again/off again 1936 Uruguay proof mystery, aka who knows about the Lissner collection?

For over 10 years now I've been picking at this one, and many of you have weighed in.

It started at least in 2006 or before when I spotted an unlisted proof for sale at Northeast Numismatics and bought it. Every couple years or so something pops up and gets me interested again. Here is one old thread about it (a messy mess of a thread, but it gives the idea):https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/8888647#Comment_8888647

Basically, in 1930 Uruguay celebrated its 100 year anniversary with freshly designed coins, including the lovely puma 10 centesimos. Designed and minted in France, and the design elements clearly show the marks (cornucopia and torch) associated with their French point of origin.

In 1936 the design was adapted to a smaller planchet, retaining the puma and sun reverse but losing the anniversary legend and the French marks. Instead an 'A' mintmark was added.

Other than the strike and look (watery fields etc) I have yet to discover any specific feature that it is a proof vs. circulation--for awhile I toyed with the idea it was reeding or lack of reeding because all the ones I'd seen up to that point were in the old style NGC slabs and no reeding was visible. Since then I've seen a PCGS (but they call it a specimen not a proof) one and another in an old slab that was off kilter enough to see that reeding is present.

The Uruguay Mint states Austria/Vienna was their minting location. The Austrian Mint email I sent returned with basically "we have no information about these". Stymied! However, there are definitely several references to the Austria point of origin from various sellers (buried in that old thread and won't rehash here).

A dormant mystery, BUT I just bought this one on eBay and was able to dig up the coins prior sale at auction in 2014 via CNG. Negotiated the price down a bit (dude still made a sweet profit) and bought it for no other reason than it does make my beloved puma coin seem more likely to be a proof striking of SOME sort or other. Perhaps pieces made to clinch the deal win the minting contract? Proofs made but never released? Austrian mint employee shenanigans?

In 2014 the Lissner collection was sold by CNG, including this very coin as well as the 1, 5, and 10. The coins are described by CNG as unlisted in Krause and they speculated the A was for Paris, Berlin, or Vienna as the potential mint sites. Specifically (from the catalog) “Considering this piece was a duplicate of the Austria Mint collection, we consider Vienna to be the likely source”.

Either way, its just another piece in the Puma Proof Puzzle of 1936.

So who knows about Lissner?

Comments

  • He was a longtime collector of choice world, especially focusing on Central and South American. Here is a link to the catalog (sessions 1 and 2), with a write-up about him at the beginning:

    https://issuu.com/cngcoins/docs/cng_lissner_catalog_virtual_catalog/6

    Sessions 3 and 4 are in the similar catalog next to it.

    Jeremy Bostwick

    For exceptional works of medallic art, check out our current inventory at Numismagram!

  • NapNap Posts: 1,339 ✭✭✭

    This reference:
    monedasuruguay.com/bib/bib/a/almanzar.pdf
    Has nothing about 1936 proofs. I don't know how up to date it is. It does state that 1936 coins were struck in Vienna.

    Lissner's collection was extremely high quality, and very extensive. Much of his stuff was sent for evaluation by WINGS. Way too modern for my liking though :smile:

  • StorkStork Posts: 4,209 ✭✭✭✭

    Thanks! The slab does have a Wings sticker on it...though it looks like a little PVC has turned up since 2014 (funny how much more I notice that nowadays). Wonder if NCS would conserve it and keep the Lissner label? If so I'd get back a pronged slab and finally see the rims I fretted about so long ago.

    It is a bit modern, but I do love the 1920s/1930s coins and deco influenced coins (and my deco medals are getting a bit....extensive...too). The Morlon work and puma design are the pull. Normally I would not have gone for the 2 cent, but the idea of another proof label and one that has an even more 'proofy' look was irresistible.

    @numismagram Thanks for linking the whole catalog, that was a very good read. Turns out Mr. Lissner was a fellow Cal alum (among other things)--Go Bears! If I'd read the biography first I might not have haggled over the price (though I made sure I offered the seller a profit after accounting for closing price and auction fees, and assuming he was the buyer out of the auction). Maybe it was best to look later after all.

    @Nap The Uruguay mint site has been much improved since I first stumbled on it. Add in the google translate and it's amazing how much easier it is. Great link!!

  • No problem, @Stork! And, though I didn't go to Cal, my girlfriend did, so I have been thoroughly indoctrinated into all things Bears (even though we are technically closer in proximity to Stanford right now :/ ).

    The Lissner sale was really a great offering. I worked at CNG for a number of years prior to that auction, and know that they always put a lot of time into them, so even the catalogs serve as great references. As for the sale itself, I remember watching a fair amount of it hammer down in the room as I was working for James at @Atlascoin at the time. Some really fun stuff!

    Jeremy Bostwick

    For exceptional works of medallic art, check out our current inventory at Numismagram!

  • Timbuk3Timbuk3 Posts: 4,337 ✭✭✭

    Thanks for sharing !!! :)

    Timbuk3
  • ElmhurstElmhurst Posts: 233 ✭✭✭

    If you ever find yourself in Montevideo, you will want to check out the Numismatic Museum at the Central Bank building, a block or two behind the Radisson on Plaza Independcia. They may have some info on your item, but I'm sure will be only in Spanish.

    Anschrift Ungenugend
  • RMWRMW Posts: 197 ✭✭✭

    I have only one odd coin from that collection, a British 1 1/2 P piece from 1843 in MS 67. My one piece of that reign to help along with a type set.

  • pruebaspruebas Posts: 1,830 ✭✭✭

    The essai is in the Stacks Bowers auction in NY.

    Lot 21415

  • StorkStork Posts: 4,209 ✭✭✭✭

    @RMW said:
    I have only one odd coin from that collection, a British 1 1/2 P piece from 1843 in MS 67. My one piece of that reign to help along with a type set.

    Cool!

    @pruebas said:
    The essai is in the Stacks Bowers auction in NY.

    Lot 21415

    That will be a fun one to watch! I saw a 64 sell not too long ago in Europe. Love those.

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