Boston and Cleveland after a little more than a quarter of the season.

keets

The NBA season is a little more than 25% complete so we have had a chance to see the affect of the Irving/Thomas trade on both Teams. What is your opinion thus far and maybe a prediction going forward??

Al H.

fergie23

Since Thomas hasn't played yet I think it is premature to say we have seen the affect on the Cavs. That said I think if Thomas comes back this season the Cavs will be only a little stronger than they are now since Lebron is the straw that stirs the drink for the Cavs.

For the Celtics we are finally seeing Irving unleashed. I wasn't high on him coming out of college (since he was injured at Duke) but he is elite. Irving's injury history is reason for concern longer term in Boston.

Overall if Lebron stays healthy Cavs get to the NBA finals again. I think this is Lebron's last year where he can personally lead a team to the Finals. I believe they will beat the Celtics in the conference finals. Next year the Celtics become the standard bearers in the East whether Lebron stays or goes.

Robb

keets

Irving is only doing at Boston the same thing he did with Cleveland. the biggest thing that will be noticed, on both Teams, is how much Irving is the focus of the offense and how often the ball gets to the hoop through him. in that regard he is similar to Thomas so the trade initially looks like a wash. the injury with Thomas is actually a good thing for Cleveland.

due to the injury and the expected recovery time for Thomas the Cavs had to make a few other moves to fill the obvious hole that was left. watching them play the past few weeks they are now tending to get more players involved in the offense. I haven't scoured over the stats but the Cavs seem poised to compete in a way they couldn't before; they are actually doing so with Tristan Thompson, Derrick Rose and Isaiah Thomas not even playing yet. the biggest addition is proving to be Dwayne Wade.

Wade came forward at the start of the season and asked NOT TO START because he wasn't playing well in the way the Team played. being "relegated" to the bench and the second Team now gives Cleveland something they have never had, the ability to rest players and not fall behind or lose the lead. understandably, this is all seen through the lens of a winning streak, but it grew out of a start where the Team seemed unorganized and slowed by injuries.

to the absence of Irving, the ball still ends up with Lebron and he still ends up with lots of assists, they are now going to several players and not so much just one.

the rest of the season will present some problems for the Head Coach when injured players return.

Brick

We also have to see what comes of the Cavs high draft pick they got in the trade. Kyrie is a tremendous talent, even better than people realize because he played with LeBron and Kevin Love. The Celtics are obviously much better and nearly certain to make the Eastern Finals. The Cavs have corrected their biggest problem, the second team but not because of this trade. This may be a win-win trade but we won't know the final results until the next couple of years. (actually it is a win for Boston now.)

bronco2078

@keets said:
Irving is only doing at Boston the same thing he did with Cleveland. the biggest thing that will be noticed, on both Teams, is how much Irving is the focus of the offense and how often the ball gets to the hoop through him. in that regard he is similar to Thomas so the trade initially looks like a wash. the injury with Thomas is actually a good thing for Cleveland.

Wrong . No one here in Boston thought Irving would play defense the way he is. Where did that come from? Oh right maybe because he has a coach now.

Cleveland has no coach and no GM only a king . , at least until the end of the year , then none of the above

keets

the notion that Cleveland is run by LBJ from the front office down is just stupid. you can hate on James if that makes you feel good, but Irving played better defense than fans want to give him credit for. and to Brick, as I clearly stated the "trade" is already paying dividends even though the main player we got is still injured. they knew he was hurt at the time of the trade and simply worked around it.

ask Bronco, I'm sure he'll tell you that Lebron went out and got those guys.

SanctionII

For some reason the NBA has lost some of its appeal to me this year. Perhaps it is too early in the season to pay much attention.

However, my wife and I decided to do something different for Christmas this year.

We decided to splurge and buy 4 tickets to the Christmas day game between Golden State and Cleveland for both of us and our two sons. It will likely be the only NBA game I go to this season. Nose bleed seats, but it should be fun. I have never seen LBJ play in person and I am looking forward to seeing the King "live".

keets

I always end up in those seats, Kevin, I can bring myself to pas several hundred to be courtside or even close. back around 1974 when the Cavs had some good players and the game was a bit less theatrical I could sit close. we had seats about 10 rows off mid-court and probably didn't even pay $20 each. it was in the old Richfield Coliseum.

perkdog

By no means am I a Basketball fan but most of my friends are and they are all pleasantly surprised at how well the Celtics have been doing especially after losing such a great player in the first 5 minutes of the season

Justacommeman

@keets said:
the notion that Cleveland is run by LBJ from the front office down is just stupid. you can hate on James if that makes you feel good, but Irving played better defense than fans want to give him credit for. and to Brick, as I clearly stated the "trade" is already paying dividends even though the main player we got is still injured. they knew he was hurt at the time of the trade and simply worked around it.

ask Bronco, I'm sure he'll tell you that Lebron went out and got those guys.

I do think Lebron has the power to get coaches fired, get trades made and make players want to switch teams. That's pretty much running the organization

m

Brick

Great players have great influence. I remember Magic Johnson had his coach replaced years ago. Players wanting to go to Cleveland to play with LeBron is a good thing. If James was not in Cleveland who would want to go there?

keets

I don't doubt that Lebron James has influence and input about some player moves, but it's nothing close to the level that some would insinuate, that he runs the club and makes the coaching decisions. that's just silly. all great players, that is ALL GREAT PLAYERS weild some degree of influence within their organization. that's just the nature of how sports are now and the reality of the player/management interaction.

does anyone think Tom Brady isn't consulted about certain things?? does anyone think that Brett Favre wasn't consulted about certain stuff?? the difference is that there is just a general disdain for Lebron James that seems driven by the media. take a look at Steph Curry, he does things similar to what James does. the difference is in the way the media responds to him and insists on depicting him with his young daughter sitting on his lap. that will eventually end.

I live in the Cleveland area, have all my life and see local news and read local news. the stuff reported here is usually different than what the National media reports. it goes with the territory for James, I guess. maybe if he had some sort of off court scandal they'd rag on him for that, but he keeps his public life clean and private. there's nowhere to go but his basketball life for the media so they go there.

trust me on this, the man has input into what takes place with the Cleveland Cavs, but not really any more than any great star on other Teams and not to the degree you are all led to believe by the National Sports Gossip outlets.

bronco2078

You will change your mind in a few months when he bolts. Then you will be all , seems like LeBron runs the lakers its disgusting .

keets

**Then you will be all , seems like LeBron runs the lakers its disgusting **

Bronco, are you just a jerk or is it an act??

just because your posts seem to indicate that you loathe the man doesn't mean everyone else does or will based on what he does. I suppose you think you have the mental state of fans figured out but you are lacking in that regard. fans here weren't all torn up that Lebron James left, what was annoying was the drama he attached to it. everyone got over it and true fans of the game like me enjoyed watching him play elsewhere.

I won't pretend to understand why fans such as yourself hate him so much. to do that, I would have to get into your head and that seems like a scary neighborhood where no one should go alone.

have a nice hateful day, that seems to be what you cherish.

erikthredd

My thoughts before this trade was made was that IT & Kyrie's game were very similar and I didn't see Boston gaining much by swapping players with other players/picks going to Cleveland. I admit i hadn't watched many Cavs games outside of primetime or playoff games,after watching every C's game this season,i honestly think Kyrie's ceiling is much higher than IT's was and that is before factoring in the hip injury. I loved watching IT the past few seasons but Kyrie is so much better than i thought he was. His handle & scoring ability are well documented but Kyrie could easily average 8-10 assists per game if they had guys that could just finish at the basket better. His defense has also been much better than advertised as well.
Overall I don't think this deal can really be judged until we see what happens with that Nets pick and we see if IT comes back this season and makes a contribution to the Cavs come playoff time. We can say that Boston has had the better return so far,which is true from a standings perspective,but from the Cavs point of view,will IT come back healthy? Will that Nets pick turn into gold for the Cavs? Can Zizic turn into a competent big man? I was never a fan of Jae Crowder so i don't think he was gonna push this deal one way or the other.
I will say this though,Cleveland absolutely needs to hit big on that Nets pick because if somehow Lebron jumps ship this offseason without the Cavs getting anything in return,the Cavs will be screwed if they don't get a stud player after Lebron & Kyrie both left Cleveland. Not to mention IT might not re-sign there this offseason. If that franchise doesn't hit on that pick they'll be back to the pre-Lebron days for a longtime. That's just my 2 cents.

Brick

Kyrie is the real deal, better than people realized. And everyone knows he's a super star. I felt that he would be the Cavs best player in two or three years as LBJ aged. I wondered if they could handle that mentally and emotionally. Now I don't have to worry about it.

bronco2078

@keets said:
**Then you will be all , seems like LeBron runs the lakers its disgusting **

Bronco, are you just a jerk or is it an act??

It's mostly an act.

galaxy27

i called the jerk store looking for some Christmas presents for my family and was told that they were plumb out of bronco

keets

Kyrie is the real deal, better than people realized.

I think most of the fans in Cleveland already knew that. if he had any area where he could improve it was on defense which was already really good. what he will need in Boston is a "facilitator" like what he had in Lebron. he needs another player that can feed him the ball. if he doesn't have that and everything needs to be run by him and through him the League will catch up and learn how to stop him.

erikthredd

@keets said:
Kyrie is the real deal, better than people realized.

I think most of the fans in Cleveland already knew that. if he had any area where he could improve it was on defense which was already really good. what he will need in Boston is a "facilitator" like what he had in Lebron. he needs another player that can feed him the ball. if he doesn't have that and everything needs to be run by him and through him the League will catch up and learn how to stop him.

No Cavs fans were saying Kyrie was already good on defense,in fact all we heard was how terrible he was on D. I also don't agree on the League catching up to him at some point. Have you actually watched him play? He repeatedly gets by 2-3 defenders on the way to the hoop and will either get the basket or get fouled. With other players like Brown,Tatum,Horford and eventually Hayward able to take some of the scoring load,the Celtics aren't mainly just a one man offense like they were last season with Isaiah Thomas & whoever was hitting their threes on that night.
As for the facilitator part,Boston's offense has mainly gone thru Kyrie,Horford or Smart who all average 5 assists per game so he hasn't "needed" someone else to run the C's offense. Brad Stevens' offensive system has been built on making that extra pass & finding the open man so they haven't needed a guy who the offense is dependant on like Cleveland is with Lebron. Just look at today's Celtics-Suns box score- Horford 11 assists,Smart 7 assists and Kyrie 5 assists with all three on the floor together to finish out games.
Cavs fans spent the months following this trade telling anyone who listened that Kyrie was just an ISO player who can't play defense,can't run an offense and can't win games without Lebron starting next to him and to this point of the season they've been wrong on EVERYTHING.

bronco2078

Well Boston has a coach who coaches . Cleveland just had that guy who's job it was to ever so gently cup the kings coin purse in his wittle hand.

keets

erik, I don't where you're from, the Cavs fans I hang with were fine with his defense and the way he helped shut-down Curry whenever we played the Warriors.

here we go again, saddle up the bronco as he roles out the act whenever anyone says anything contradictory to me. hang in there fella...................

erikthredd

keets, i live very close to Boston and i admit about 99% of my interaction with Cavs fans comes from the ESPN site where i comment much more than i do here and there were many many Cavs fans ripping his defense among other things after the trade. I get part of it was hate for the guy because he pretty much forced his way out of town and i never really believed he was as bad on D as they said he was and he hasn't been. That being said,i think Boston's length & athleticism really works in his favor where they can switch off players on picks and he hasn't really been lit up by some opposing player.
All i can honestly say as a C's fan that has watched him for these 22 games in Boston is he's been significantly better than advertised all the way across the board. I won't ever expect him to be on Lebron's level but with this team he has around him he pretty much fits in perfectly. Its too bad Hayward isn't a part of it after that injury.

keets

**I get part of it was hate for the guy because he pretty much forced his way out of town **

I would say that was almost all of it.