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Question on Japan 10 Sen !!!
Timbuk3
Posts: 11,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
I wanted to know the value on these (2) Japan 10 sen,
Any help is greatly appreciated.
1887 (M-20) PCGS MS-68 pop. 1/0
1905 (M-38) PCGS MS-68 pop. 1/0
Thanks !!! 
Timbuk3
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It's always more interesting with a top pop, and even in the common dates like M20/M38, a real gem is desirable. All I have to go by is the JNDA, and that can be off--too high mostly, but again with a top pop/gem, all bets are off. Yours are 40,000 yen and 15,000 yen respectively as 'gem'.
If it helps, I am currently watching an auction that goes off next week for a PCGS MS-68 20 sen. Once it closes you can have a better idea how much that skewed the final price.
Thank you for your helpful information !!!
I would like to offer a couple of thoughts in general, and also to Stork's post specifically. High grade/top pops do not generate nearly the skewed pricing curve in Japanese coins that you see in US coins. I think is a simple combination of no registry competition in Japan and a more sensible approach to valuing coins as they are better preserved along the condition scale. In the US there is a rather large price skew for the very high end and top pop coins. My personal opinion is that the US is far too aggressive in pricing condition rarities, while Japan might be a bit behind. I think there might be a happy medium somewhere in the middle, but until the registry concept becomes more popular in Japan, or the US registry idea cools down a bit, these pricing anomalies (?) can remain for a long long time.
To Stork's post in particular I would offer the following comments. I am also following the MS68 20 sen that is coming up at auction. I was very interested in the piece for my high grade Japanese type set, but it seems to be already priced beyond what I feel it is worth. I have not seen the coin in hand (yet), but from the photos I have seen, the coin looks VERY proof like with reflective fields and heavily frosted devices. The one thing Japanese collectors do pay a premium for is proof like coins across all the series. I would also add that the coin is being offered at the premier yearly auction for Japanese coins, and that prices realized are often unrepeatable, sometimes even at 50% of the auction selling price. I have seen many coins over the last 15 years achieve some incredible price and then similar coins will appear on the market in the same grade and cannot be sold at a fraction of the auction price. I have always maintained that the auction is the greatest place to sell, and the absolute worst place to buy.
I would also be VERY careful trying to extrapolate prices for other denominations from specific auction results. I say this because the demand for certain denominations is very different. Silver 1 Yen coins and anything gold is very highly collected, beyond that demand drops off considerably, especially for the smaller denomination/size coins. I can guess that this is simply a function of historical preference, as well as a collector base that is very old, with eyesight that is not quite as good as it used to be.
I also think the comparison is not valid quite simply due to the coins size. A 10 sen coin and 20 sen coin are analogous to a dime and quarter. Doing a quick perusal of Mercury dimes vs Washington quarters in the population reports I came up with the following:
Mercury dimes 843 coins in MS68/68+ and 23 coins in MS69
Washington quarters 71 coins in MS68/68+ and none in MS69
10 sen coins are quite simply much smaller and therefore much more likely to be found in ultra high grades than 20 sen or other larger denominations. Using the population reports for Japanese coins is only slightly useful, simply because slabbing of coins here is still not that popular. I am quite certain there are lots of high grade coins sitting in long time collections that have not seen the light of day in many many years. The slabbing process here is also significantly more expensive than it is in the US, making it uneconomical for all but the rarest/most valuable coins to be sent in for grading.
The above are my personal thoughts as a long time collector of high grade Japanese type coins. I would welcome any thoughts or counterpoints from other collectors as I am always looking to learn more.
Regards
Excellent information...much more relevant from someone who is a collector in Japan! I have close to zero experience with the auctions in Japan (in fact my 'biggest' buys have been Albanian coins, from Japan and only recently have I learned to bid/purchase from there--modern translating software is great!).
It's good to understand the premium, particularly for this auction. Not something that is obvious to an overseas observer. The auctions I have 'watched' more are from Auction World--do they tend to have the same premiums as the Ginza auction? I was very shocked over the selling price of a few error coins for example--had no idea they would go that high (unpunched center hole in a current 5 yen, off metal strike on another).
I watch the auctions more from curiosity, but have had a little luck at Auction World on lower valued coins. The Albanian coins on the other hand have been mixed. I did pay what seemed to be a reasonable price on a gold coin (going by recent auction history in completed European sales) and another that was a lot lower than anticipated (silver, '2 franc' equivalent). Others seemed to sell for strong prices, so perhaps I got lucky on those two.
I have long wondered about what is truly prized by the Japanese market, and it sounds like it's the proof like coin (well that and the 1 yen/gold popularity).
A long time ago a collector friend of mine was always quite adamant that toned coins ('tarnished') were very frowned upon, and I have several coins that look like dips that turned. Is this something you have observed? I am particularly fond of the double phoenix 50 sen and those are found blast white but also with, to a US eye, very nice toning as well. Always been curious if these would be rejected by the average collector in Japan.
Well, I am happy to see your post--I do collect Japanese coins, but as US based collector who can't read Japanese, I find my collecting endeavors to be a lonely experience sometimes. Thank you for the excellent information!
edited to add:
I just looked at the auction in question--absolutely stunned at the current bid-- 340,000 yen. The next lot is a 67 with a lovely obverse but a toned reverse and currently sits at 42,000 yen. Granted this is pre-bidding for an auction later next week, so bids will (probably) change. But whew! JNDA gem is 80,000.
I'll stand by my 'all bets are off' comment mostly because I have no idea how these will end. Though, it sounds like it's the proof-like quality that is the driving force, not the top/pop status.
It would be very nice to become suddenly wealthy and have the confidence to bid on raw coins based off photos... or shoot, if I was that wealthy I could just fly there and bid myself.
@Tokeiski please keep us updated on your insights!