Who is right, who is wrong, a transaction.

I agreed to buy 90 "Roman/ancient" coins sight unseen from a forum member who I've had a few dealings with in person. We agreed upon a price. He was in my area and I met him when he gave me the coins. I was in a hurry and didn't have time to look at the lot. When I had a chance to examine the coins I found there were only 85 coins that were 95% from the Medieval period. I wanted to return the coins for a refund because the lot was misrepresented. He refused saying he told me he didn't know much about the coins, which he did. Well the coins are in 2x2s with attribution and date, so he should have known they aren't Roman/ancient.

Who is in the right here? Me for wanting a refund on a misrepresented lot, or the seller who refused my return request


DPOTD-3
'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'

CU #3245 B.N.A. #428


Don

Comments

  • StorkStork Posts: 4,211 ✭✭✭✭

    I'm pretty much in the camp that a seller should have a happy customer. Even those who are hobbyists selling stuff to buy more stuff, but especially a professional. Once you realized the lot wasn't what you were looking for/requesting to buy I'dve taken it right back. Especially as there were only 85 coins.

  • TookybanditTookybandit Posts: 3,215 ✭✭✭

    "I was in a hurry and didn't have time to look at the lot."

    This is unfortunate as an extra 3-5 minutes would have prevented your disappointment.

  • ajaanajaan Posts: 14,736 ✭✭✭

    @Tookybandit said:
    "I was in a hurry and didn't have time to look at the lot."

    This is unfortunate as an extra 3-5 minutes would have prevented your disappointment.

    Unfortunately I took the seller at his word that the coins were Roman/ancient.


    DPOTD-3
    'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'

    CU #3245 B.N.A. #428


    Don
  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 15,276 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I suspect this is your last transaction with this individual. Because you accepted the lot in person I doubt if you have any solid claim. I hope the lot wasn't expensive.

    All glory is fleeting.
  • AbueloAbuelo Posts: 106 ✭✭✭

    Well, even ebay sellers will accept refunds. You mentioned that you had done business with this person in the past... I hope he realises that he just lost a customer.

  • grote15grote15 Posts: 25,099 ✭✭✭✭

    If the lot was misrepresented, as it appears it was in this case, it's the seller's responsibility to make this right. Not knowing much about the coins is not an acceptable excuse to abdicate responsibility.



    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • BillDugan1959BillDugan1959 Posts: 1,002 ✭✭✭✭

    When you do the transaction face-to-face, the ole 'caveat emptor' creeps in.

  • ZoharZohar Posts: 5,881 ✭✭✭✭

    This is one where you can take either side. He loses by not accommodating an honest oversight on your part and his mistaken description ... you lose on getting stuck with it. Offload the lot on ebay or forum, recoup what you can and move on. It happens.

  • pmacpmac Posts: 3,165 ✭✭✭

    "OUT THE BUM!!"
    Anyway, was there a huge price paid and if so, 3-5 minutes should have been spent? I also agree with Stork in that we should keep happy customers. Have a conversation with the seller and come to a compromise.

    Paul
  • ajaanajaan Posts: 14,736 ✭✭✭

    @pmac said:
    "OUT THE BUM!!"
    Anyway, was there a huge price paid and if so, 3-5 minutes should have been spent? I also agree with Stork in that we should keep happy customers. Have a conversation with the seller and come to a compromise.

    I have had a conversation with him. He didn't agree to a refund.


    DPOTD-3
    'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'

    CU #3245 B.N.A. #428


    Don
  • TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 6,930 ✭✭✭✭

    I agree with Z on this.

    8 Reales Madness



    Looking for Mexico 8 Reales 1772-1821 in AU+ condition. PM me!
  • sylsyl Posts: 384 ✭✭✭

    Sorry about your loss, Don. They'll be a little extra on the Tues porch visit.

  • PokermandudePokermandude Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭

    I'd side with the buyer. Although it's not as clear cut as if he had shipped this lot to you. A few minutes of time to verify the contents obviously would have been prudent. In the end, it's about good business practices not "gotcha". Especially considering it sounds like you've done a fair bit with this individual before. Short-sighted antics on the seller's part.

    If the seller refuses to refund, I would out them.

    http://stores.ebay.ca/Mattscoin - Canadian coins, World Coins, Silver, Gold, Coin lots, Modern Mint Prodcuts & Collections
  • pmacpmac Posts: 3,165 ✭✭✭

    "and come to a compromise."

    Paul
  • SwampboySwampboy Posts: 10,068 ✭✭✭

    If he said they were ancient and they are not ancient then there is only one honorable way for this to conclude IMHO

  • ajaanajaan Posts: 14,736 ✭✭✭

    Unfortunately, for me, the seller puts profit above honor.


    DPOTD-3
    'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'

    CU #3245 B.N.A. #428


    Don
  • SYRACUSIANSYRACUSIAN Posts: 6,016 ✭✭✭
    edited October 27, 2017 8:49PM

    The way I see this, is that any way you slice it, the seller is not behaving as he should. The fact that the lot was 5 coins short, is reason enough to return the entire lot and not simply ask for a partial refund, let alone the clear misrepresentation of identified coins, sold by a coin forum member who can't pretend ignorance and refuse to refund the other member, the buyer.

    If this was an eBay transaction, Don would have already been refunded. The BST and the transactions between members of this forum, are theoretically a few steps above eBay, from an ethical point of view and yet here's a member who abuses the trust of another, members who have already dealt with each other and Don still keeps the bar high, by not naming him publically. It's pretty clear to me and I fail to understand comments of the sort that the buyer should have inspected the coins at the time of purchase. And what if they had been sent by mail?

    Dimitri



    myEbay



    DPOTD 3
  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 15,240 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Weird transaction

    m

    Walker Proof Digital Album





    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 20,395 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If the seller is convinced that the coins were misrepresented and that the buyer did not inspect the coins on delivery, he owes the buyer a refund.

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic……………………...Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.

    image
  • marcmoishmarcmoish Posts: 2,981 ✭✭✭

    @Zohar said:
    This is one where you can take either side. He loses by not accommodating an honest oversight on your part and his mistaken description ... you lose on getting stuck with it. Offload the lot on ebay or forum, recoup what you can and move on. It happens.

    I have to agree totally, anything else will just stress, cost you in health, and keep your energy sidelined from important things in life.

  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 20,395 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If the package contained Jefferson nickels instead I’d medieval coins, would that change anyone’s opinion?

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic……………………...Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.

    image
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 20,395 ✭✭✭✭✭

    And what if all of the coins were ancients, but counterfeit?

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic……………………...Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.

    image
  • wybritwybrit Posts: 7,188 ✭✭✭

    I side with the idea that the customer should be happy. Take the coins back and give ajaan a refund, whoever you are!

    Former owner, Cambridge Gate collection.
  • PatARPatAR Posts: 280 ✭✭

    I don't generally like to participate in these kind of posts, because there are always at least two sides to every story.

    However, unless a very long period of time lapsed between the transaction and the request for refund, I just can't imagine not providing a refund even if the coins were as represented. Enjoyment of this hobby comes primarily from knowledge and camaraderie gained through interactions with other people who share a similar interest. Alienating a fellow hobbyist and customer will never be worth whatever profit was gained from a transaction. I would strongly urge the seller to communicate with the buyer and resolve this.

    Coins of Isabel 2

    Numismatic Gladiator VI
  • ajaanajaan Posts: 14,736 ✭✭✭

    @PatAR said:
    I don't generally like to participate in these kind of posts, because there are always at least two sides to every story.

    However, unless a very long period of time lapsed between the transaction and the request for refund, I just can't imagine not providing a refund even if the coins were as represented. Enjoyment of this hobby comes primarily from knowledge and camaraderie gained through interactions with other people who share a similar interest. Alienating a fellow hobbyist and customer will never be worth whatever profit was gained from a transaction. I would strongly urge the seller to communicate with the buyer and resolve this.

    The seller has made it quite clear he won't refund my money.


    DPOTD-3
    'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'

    CU #3245 B.N.A. #428


    Don
  • TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 6,930 ✭✭✭✭

    @MrEureka said:
    If the seller is convinced that the coins were misrepresented and that the buyer did not inspect the coins on delivery, he owes the buyer a refund.

    @ajaan said:
    The seller has made it quite clear he won't refund my money.

    To clarify, I agree that the seller should refund the purchase, but seeing that they will not do the right thing Don can either try to recoup as much as he can from the lot or try to sue the seller. Depending on the difference between the price paid for the lot and the cost of liquidating the acquired coins in the current market (incl. fees/time), it might be worth pursuing the legal route, but that decision is completely up to Don. I don't believe any amount of discussion will result in him getting his money back at this point.

    8 Reales Madness



    Looking for Mexico 8 Reales 1772-1821 in AU+ condition. PM me!
  • davewesendavewesen Posts: 1,313 ✭✭✭

    both buyer and seller are wrong - not sure best why to settle
    buyer accepted delivery without count and inventory
    seller gave without verifying what was being sold

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