Baseball Autograph Book 1942 (80+, Ott, Stengel, rookie Musial, Pee Wee Reese, Lombardi, more HOF)

muggsymuggsy Posts: 31
edited October 22, 2017 11:57AM in Trading Cards & Memorabilia Forum

So I found an old autograph book when cleaning through a grandparent's collectibles (coins and stamps too, but that's for another place). When he was a kid, he would get autographs before games, primarily NL teams. Unfortunately I haven't found anyone that has as much interest in it as me anymore. I need a lot of help identifying most of the signatures.

I'm really curious what a book (in relatively below-average condition) could draw interest—or individual autograph pages moved separately. At the moment, I'm keeping it as a memento... but maybe the value makes it tempting.

I'm just very curious about all aspects of it, and my goal is gathering as much info about it as I can—and if there is a market and approx. value on something like this. But in large part, gathering info, and identifying who the signatures are from.

Here is the *Mel Ott, Hank Leiber and Bubber Jonnard

Lou Tost, Manuel Salvo, *Casey Stengel, and Paul Waner

Now the mystery here is that the "S" in Stengel does not appear to be the way he (mostly?) signed his name. Referencing it with other known signatures, it looks the same aside from that S. However I've found other forms of his signature where he does sign his "S" in this way. Does anyone have an opinion on this signature?
One example:

My question then is if anyone has intrigue by this book; and maybe would like to go through the dozens of more names. Or what I should do with the book from here.

EDIT 2:
More pages posted as a collage for now.

NYG
+Hank Leiber
*Mel Ott
Bubber Jonnard (coach)

NYG
Ace Adams
Anthony "Tony" DiBartolo (minors)
Gus Mancuso (traded to STL in '42)

BSN
Lou Tost
Manuel Salvo
*Casey Stengel
*Paul Waner

BSN
Al "Skippy" Roberge
+Phil Masi
?
Al Javery
Jimmy Wallace
John Cooney

BSN
Sibby Sisti
Chet Ross
Clyde Kluttz

BSN
+Eddie Miller
Tommy Holmes
Dick Errickson

BSN
Frank Demaree
*Ernie Lombardi

CIN
+Hank Sauer
Joe Abreu
Joe Beggs
Gee Walker
Ival Goodman

CIN
+Lonny Frey
Ival Goodman
Dick West
Bucky Walters
Eddie Joost

PIT
Pete Coscarart
Bob Klinger
Hank Gornicki
+Rip Sewell

PIT
+Bob Elliott
John Lanning
Jim Wasdell

BRO
Les Webber
Augie Galan
*Pee Wee Reese

PHI
Frank "Rube" Melton
Merrill "Pinky" May
Ernie Koy
Mickey Livingston
Si Johnson

PHI
Al Glossop
Dan Litwhiler
Bob Bragan
Johnny Podgajny
Walter "Boom-Boom" Beck
Hans Lobert (manager)

PHI
*Lloyd Waner
Frank "Lefty" Hoerst
Benny Culp

CHC
Ed Hanyzewski
Lennie Merullo
Claude Passeau

CHC
+Hiram "Hi" Bithorn (first player from Puerto Rico)

CHC
Lou Stringer
Chico Hernandez
Bill Fleming
Bill Nicholson

STL
Marty Marion
?
+Whitey Kurowski
Howard "Howie" Pollet

STL
*Enos Slaughter
Harry Gumbert
Harry Walker

STL
*Mort Cooper (MVP of '42)

STL
*Stan Musial (rookie)

STL
*Billy Southworth
Leo Ward?? (traveling secretary?)

EDIT 3:

So now here's something interesting. When I first saw the Musial autograph I was a little confused, since it doesn't look like any of the Musial autographs you'll find out there. But if you find some of his signatures from 41–42 like signed forms that have surfaced, you'll see he had a more classical signature, before he started his "autograph."

Check out these old examples:

1941 sig: http://www.stlouismemorabilia.com/apps/photos/photo?photoid=149653571

Comments

  • HighGradeLegendsHighGradeLegends Posts: 1,359 ✭✭✭

    Welcome to the forum. There are tons of great people on here that can help you ID the autos in the book. You may also want to visit Net54 forums too, as they folks that specialize in pre-war things like this. Looks like you found something cool. Your next steps are based on your goals. If you intend to sell the book, I would first ID each auto. Second, using PSA/DNA quick opinion, I would confirm if the "key" autos are authentic. If yes, then I would submit to PSA/DNA for authentication, but only assuming. Then you could sell yourself or try a major consigning auction house. If you prefer to keep the item, then you may not want to spend the $$$ to get everything authenticated, assuming you know it is all real. Selling raw is more of a challenge, but not impossible. To avoid drama, I would pay for authentication from PSA/DNA, assuming everything up front fails to show red flags.

  • Thanks HGL, that's a good guideline to follow. As you say, the first thing I want to do is ID everyone in the book, and create timelines as well. There are a lot of signatures in here. I might uncover more great names. I also signed up at that Net54 forums and awaiting activation; it looks like another good resource. What sort of money are we talking about for the authentication?

  • BrickBrick Posts: 3,867 ✭✭✭✭

    Hi, hello, how are ya? - welcome. :)

    Collecting 1960 Topps Baseball in PSA 8
    http://www.unisquare.com/store/brick/

    Ralph

  • DboneesqDboneesq Posts: 18,026

    Click below to figure out the cost of grading. GOOD LUCK!

    https://www.psacard.com/Fees/Autographs/

    STAY HEALTHY!

    Doug

    It was tough having to sell almost my entire collection of ~1,700 PSA graded cards from the 1910s - 1970's and my ~250 - 300 Graded Packs from the 50s, 60s and 70s. But when your daughter AND your wife are diagnosed with Cancer, sometimes you don't have a choice. One day I'll get some of them back!
  • Stone193Stone193 Posts: 23,267 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hiya muggsy

    Welcome.

    Not an auto collector but with respect to the Ott - it's great to have and it sure looks like his sig.

    When referencing upwards of 2 grand - that would be for something "single signed" - this is hindered by writing around it - so less attractive to an auto collector IMO.

    Is it still worth a bit? You bet!

    Good luck!

    How come no one ever leaves me stuff like that?

    Mike



  • Hey, Stone. I agree with the single-signed memorabilia, especially when it comes to balls. Then when researching this stuff, I found out there is actually a market for "cut-outs" which is literally an autograph cut out of the paper it were on.
    Check this out: https://www.sportsmemorabilia.com/sports-products/mel-ott-baseball-signed-cut-psadna.html
    This is crazy to me! Do these really sell?

  • @Dboneesq said:
    Click below to figure out the cost of grading. GOOD LUCK!

    https://www.psacard.com/Fees/Autographs/

    Thanks, bookmarking this to use!

  • Stone193Stone193 Posts: 23,267 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @muggsy said:
    Hey, Stone. I agree with the single-signed memorabilia, especially when it comes to balls. Then when researching this stuff, I found out there is actually a market for "cut-outs" which is literally an autograph cut out of the paper it were on.
    Check this out: https://www.sportsmemorabilia.com/sports-products/mel-ott-baseball-signed-cut-psadna.html
    This is crazy to me! Do these really sell?

    Again - not my area.

    But, anyone can ask what they want.

    Same with eBay - the "sold" prices on cuts is far less than that asking price.

    Plus - IMO - depends how clean the cut is - like I said - in your case - there's no way to cut out his name without having some of another sig with it.

    But, still a very nice auto.

    Mike



  • raiderguy10raiderguy10 Posts: 1,704 ✭✭✭

    Show the other pages!!

    Collect HOF Autos and Anything Raiders.

    "In Al We Trust!"

    Looking for Autos of HOFers Charles Bidwill, Tim Mara, Joe Carr, Fritz Pollard, Guy Chamberlin & Bill Hewitt
  • DboneesqDboneesq Posts: 18,026

    On eBay now as a BUY IT NOW for $675.00

    STAY HEALTHY!

    Doug

    It was tough having to sell almost my entire collection of ~1,700 PSA graded cards from the 1910s - 1970's and my ~250 - 300 Graded Packs from the 50s, 60s and 70s. But when your daughter AND your wife are diagnosed with Cancer, sometimes you don't have a choice. One day I'll get some of them back!
  • TunisTunis Posts: 182 ✭✭✭

    I know this is way down the list on important signatures but that is not Bernie James’ signature under Mel Ott......

    Successful buys on BST board from NotSure, Nankraut, Yorkshireman, JohnsCoins, Scootersdad, Astrorat, Ikeigwin, Bob13, Outhaul

  • Sorry guys. I had a serious situation come up, so I haven't been home or had a minute. I'll update more pages today. Thanks for the interest!

  • @Tunis said:
    I know this is way down the list on important signatures but that is not Bernie James’ signature under Mel Ott......

    This was IDed from a different forum. Thank you for pointing this out, I just want to get everything right. Do you know who it IS then or why it's not? Do you think that is really Hank Leiber then?

  • I edited the original post with several more pages. I figured instead of so many individual pictures, I'll just post it as a collage for the time being. Have fun identifying them all! :)

  • muggsymuggsy Posts: 31
    edited October 10, 2017 6:36PM

    (moved to first post)

  • SDSportsFanSDSportsFan Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭

    Ace Adams and Gus Mancuso both played for the NY Giants from 1942-1944. There was an Anthony DiBartolo in the minor leagues in 1942, playing for the Fort Smith (Arkansas) Giants, so I would guess that is the ID for the signature between Adams and Mancuso.

    Steve

  • SDSportsFanSDSportsFan Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭

    The one below Whitey Kurowski, is Howie Pollet, who was a teammate of Kurowski and Marty Marion on the 1940s St Louis Cardinals.

    Steve

  • SDSportsFanSDSportsFan Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭
    edited October 10, 2017 2:07PM

    The bottom right corner has Enos Slaughter (HOF), Harry Gumbert and Harry Walker, who were all teammates on the 1941-43 Cardinals.

    The bottom left one has Billy Southworth, who managed the Cardinals from 1940-45, and is in the HOF.

    Steve

  • SDSportsFanSDSportsFan Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭

    The autograph with Hank Sauer, Joe Abreu, Joe Beggs and Ival Goodman, is probably Gee Walker. They were all teammates on the 1942 Cincinnati Reds.

    Steve

  • SDSportsFanSDSportsFan Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭

    Bottom middle is Pete Coscarart, Bob Klinger, Hank Gornicki and Rip Sewell, who were all teammates on the 1942-43 Pittsburgh Pirates.

    Steve

  • SDSportsFanSDSportsFan Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭
    edited October 10, 2017 3:10PM

    @muggsy said:

    @Tunis said:
    I know this is way down the list on important signatures but that is not Bernie James’ signature under Mel Ott......

    This was IDed from a different forum. Thank you for pointing this out, I just want to get everything right. Do you know who it IS then or why it's not? Do you think that is really Hank Leiber then?

    I tend to agree that this does not look like "Bernie James". Bernie James played for the NY Giants in 1933 only. He also played for the Boston Braves in 1929-30. His last year in pro BB appears to be 1936, in Rochester and Syracuse, NY.
    .
    The rest of the signatures you've posted seem to center in 1942, based on DiBartolo and Abreu. Bernie James is the only player you've pictured, who was not in pro BB in 1942. Based on this, he just doesn't fit the pattern. Also, each of the pages you've posted have teammates on them, i.e., they were all together on the same team in 1942.

    Mel Ott and Hank Leiber were teammates with the Giants from 1933-38, and again in 1942.

    Also, Tost, Salvo, Stengel and Waner were all with the Boston Braves. Tost's first year with them was 1942, and Waner's last year with them was 1942. Stengel was with them from 1941-43, and Salvo was with them from 1940-43.

    Steve

  • Steve! Thank you so much for filling in the blanks and placing the time.
    So it's a lot of the World Champion 106-win 1942 Cardinals.
    Maybe I'll have the whole team in here ha. It places it at Stan Musial's rookie season.
    Also would make these signatures pre-war, with a lot of guys going to serve.
    Pretty cool to work out the history of this.

  • BLUEJAYWAYBLUEJAYWAY Posts: 3,664 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @SDSportsFan said:
    The bottom right corner has Enos Slaughter (HOF), Harry Gumbert and Harry Walker, who were all teammates on the 1941-43 Cardinals.

    The bottom left one has Billy Southworth, who managed the Cardinals from 1940-45, and is in the HOF.

    Steve

    Just as an aside, Harry Walkers nickname was Harry "The Hat" Walker.

    Successful transactions:Tookybandit
  • Another edit, with Musial's.

  • I've gone through several more pages. Most of them I can identify. Some other good ones, like Ernie Lombardi, Lloyd Waner, and other greats that aren't HoF.

    I doubt it, but any chance someone recognizes this one?:

  • ZTargZTarg Posts: 497 ✭✭✭

    Looks like Pixley, but the only Pixley I could find was Gordon Pixley. He only played in the minors, and only played from 1938 to 1941. I suppose he could have coached (or something baseball related) after that, but I couldn't find anything.

  • Doesn't seem like it should be difficult but I can't identify who this is.


  • Has to be Lloyd Waner, right? Not sure who the middle one is.

  • Ernie Lombardi! Don't know the top one.

  • psychumppsychump Posts: 1,174 ✭✭✭

    Could be Mort Cooper in the 1:05 post

    Tallulah Bankhead — 'There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare.'
  • psychumppsychump Posts: 1,174 ✭✭✭

    Frank Demaree above Ernie

    Tallulah Bankhead — 'There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare.'
  • Ah, Mort, there we go. Frank Demaree makes sense too. (PCL Hall of Fame)
    Thanks!

  • I added some more in the first post.

  • SDSportsFanSDSportsFan Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭

    In your newest post, the signature at the top-right is Hiram Bithorn.

    He was the first Puerto Rican to play in the major leagues. The largest stadium in Puerto Rico is named after him.....he's pretty much a hero to Puerto Ricans. While trying to make a comeback at the age of 35, he was murdered by a police officer in Mexico in 1951.

    Steve

  • SDSportsFanSDSportsFan Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭

    The one between Lloyd Waner and Benny Culp, is Frank Joseph "Lefty" Hoerst.

    Steve

  • @SDSportsFan said:
    In your newest post, the signature at the top-right is Hiram Bithorn.

    He was the first Puerto Rican to play in the major leagues. The largest stadium in Puerto Rico is named after him.....he's pretty much a hero to Puerto Ricans. While trying to make a comeback at the age of 35, he was murdered by a police officer in Mexico in 1951.

    Steve

    Wow, that one would sure be a nice addition to a collection. So disappointing that it's "vandalized."

  • So... any offers on this book of 80+ autographs from 1941-1943, with 8+ HoF, including Mel Ott, a rookie Hi Bithorn, and a rookie Stan Musial in excellent shape. :p ;)

  • @muggsy said:

    So this is one I'm still trying to ID.

  • ZTargZTarg Posts: 497 ✭✭✭

    @muggsy said:
    So... any offers on this book of 80+ autographs from 1941-1943, with 8+ HoF, including Mel Ott, a rookie Hi Bithorn, and a rookie Stan Musial in excellent shape. :p ;)

  • muggsymuggsy Posts: 31
    edited October 19, 2017 6:39PM

    This was fun, thanks guys.

  • muggsymuggsy Posts: 31
    edited October 22, 2017 11:59AM

    Of course the rookie Musial, being one of his first autographs, in March 1942, after playing only 12 games in 1941, is one of my favorites.

  • So one of the signatures not first identified is actually Pee Wee Reese! Another nice one.

  • muggsymuggsy Posts: 31
    edited October 30, 2017 11:40AM

    Now that the 1 left I've concluded is Gordon Pixley, all of the ones shown have been identified! 10 HOFers and the best players of 1942; quite a collection there!

    If you check this out, I have All-1942 Team's #1, #2, or #1&2, at every position, including SP+RP. Top Pitcher & MVP. WS Manager.
    This is fascinating to me, though I guess there's nothing to do with it but admire it myself. Maybe someone is a huge fan of the 1942 season haha

    thebaseballgauge.com/year.php?yearID=1942&tab=bypos&lgID=NL

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