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Tough Seated Dollar dates

logger7logger7 Posts: 8,094 ✭✭✭✭✭

Are these really so popular, the tougher Seated dollar dates? A dealer told me about an 1854 Seated dollar, that was graded AU details, cleaned, also had graffiti and it sold for $4K. I saw an 1855 Seated dollar earlier that is borderline XF, looked more like a nice VF to me and they said they had all kinds of offers one nearly at $5K, a lot for a raw coin.

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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 6, 2017 1:22PM

    Randy Campbell has given talks about these on many occasions. Give him a call and he'll probably talk your ear off. Forget the published prices. Especially for straight grades. Many of the coins we think are common are not. Hopefully, major collectors of these coins will post and there will be no need to make that call. I'll see if I can find one of Randy's handouts.

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    logger7logger7 Posts: 8,094 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I see many of the common dates like 1842, 59--O, 71 tough to sell at Greysheet unless there is something making the coin special.

    On the 1855, it is a head scratcher when I am told on a sub XF that they are having lots of offers up to near $5K. Here is a solid graded example at XF45 for $5K: https://coins.ha.com/itm/a/1258-5313.s Greysheet may be low on some coins, but there are outliers.

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    RichieURichRichieURich Posts: 8,372 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The toughest Seated dollar dates are 1873-S (unknown), 1870-S (9 or so known and very expensive), 1851 and 1852 (both mid-5 figure coins), 1858 (proof-only issue), 1854, 1855, 1871-CC and 1873-CC. Many collectors of the series have all of the other dates and a few or some of these. For the coins priced in four figures, there are a lot of collectors chasing a very small supply of these coins.

    An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.

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    tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,147 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I rarely see an 1872-S for sale

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    Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,150 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Though not rare by any stretch, I've wanted a nice original XF-AU 1873 for my type set for many years. The few I come across seem to be doggy and cleaned.

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    OverdateOverdate Posts: 6,939 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @tradedollarnut said:
    I rarely see an 1872-S for sale

    There are 7 slabbed and a few raw ones on eBay at the moment.

    My Adolph A. Weinman signature :)

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    specialistspecialist Posts: 956 ✭✭✭✭✭

    try finding an 1843 in MS or a real 1867

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    CryptoCrypto Posts: 3,410 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Walkerguy21D said:
    Though not rare by any stretch, I've wanted a nice original XF-AU 1873 for my type set for many years. The few I come across seem to be doggy and cleaned.

    The 1873 is an understated melt rarity as they were ramping up for trade production. They were not released in huge numbers

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    logger7logger7 Posts: 8,094 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @specialist said:
    try finding an 1843 in MS or a real 1867

    I picked up a nice XF example of an 1843, graded 45 Jim at HA was eager to buy it at Baltimore.

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    au58au58 Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭

    @Overdate said:

    @tradedollarnut said:
    I rarely see an 1872-S for sale

    There are 7 slabbed and a few raw ones on eBay at the moment.

    With only 9,000 minted, they are tough.
    Most of the coins listed on ebay are not original, even if slabbed.

    Randy Campbell had an article in Coin World years ago regarding the scarcity of _**original **_ 1844 and 1845 Dollars.
    With mintages of under 25,000 each, they are quite scarce.
    There is an original (unslabbed) 1844 on ebay now, listed by Gerry Fortin.

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    cnncoinscnncoins Posts: 414 ✭✭✭✭

    I could chime in but TDN and Specialist know I don't anything about this series....

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    tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,147 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Ha. As much or more than I do...

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    tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,147 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Ha. As much or more than I do...

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    @specialist said:
    try finding an 1843 in MS or a real 1867

    Back in the old days before internet I looked for an 1867 in AU for years and never found one.

    Successful BST deals with mustangt and jesbroken. Now EVERYTHING is for sale.

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    WDPWDP Posts: 517 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I collected Seated Dollars in the 1980s by date and mint mark in XF-AU grades. Seated Dollars are one of my specialties as a Professional Numismatist.

    I sold a very nice 1872-S Seated Dollar in PCGS AU50 at the FUN Show in January 2016. It was sold for much more than the auction prices realized as listed on the PCGS website. In my experience this is a fairly tough date / mint mark to find nice an AU grades.

    @afford, as to what prices should slabbed AU 1872-S Seated Dollars go for, in my experience as a Collector and as a Professional Numismatist, there is a wide range in prices realized due to wide differences in color and eye appeal, lustre, surfaces, grading service (holder) and so forth. The following table is courtesy of PCGS (Auction Prices Realized) - the 1872-S Seated $1 in PCGS AU50 that I sold in 2016 was sold for just under the $3,738 price realized to a knowledgeable collector. It was a well above average coin for the grade. I'll add that I haven't been able to "replace it" in over a year.

    I don't have a photo of this Seated Dollar in PCGS AU50 as I sold the coin before being able to get it photographed for posting on my website.

    Note the auction prices realized for 1872-S Seated Dollars below range from $1,610 to $3,738.

    Liberty Seated Dollar, 1872-S

    PCGS # DATE PRICE GRADE CERT FIRM SALE LOT # NOTES
    6970 Nov-2006 $3,738 AU50 PCGS Stack's The Norweb Collection 514 Rocky Mountain Collection
    6970 Jul-2013 $3,290 AU50 PCGS Heritage 2013 July 11 - 14 US Coins Signature Auction - Orlando #1187
    6970 Aug-2013 $3,055 AU50 PCGS Heritage 2013 August 8 - 10 US Coins Signature Auction - Rosemont #1188
    6970 Jan-2014 $3,000 AU50 PCGS eBay eBay Sales in January, 2014 2766
    6970 Mar-2014 $2,998 AU50 PCGS Great Collections GreatCollections Coin Auctions 03/16/2014 178721
    6970 Sep-2016 $2,820 AU50 PCGS Heritage 2016 September Long Beach Expo US Coins Signature Auction
    6970 Jan-2006 $2,760 AU50 PCGS Heritage 2006 January Orlando, FL (FUN #2) Signature Auction #394
    6970 Jan-2003 $2,645 AU50 PCGS Bowers & Merena Rarities 453
    6970 Feb-2013 $2,585 AU50 PCGS Stack's/Bowers The March 2013 Baltimore Auction 3079
    6970 Aug-2017 $2,585 AU50 PCGS Heritage 2017 August 2-6 ANA US Coins Signature Auction Denver, CO
    6970 Sep-2002 $2,300 AU50 PCGS Heritage Long Beach 7214
    6970 Aug-2000 $2,070 AU50 PCGS Bowers & Merena ANA Sale of the Millennium 4454
    6970 Aug-1998 $2,070 AU50 PCGS Heritage ANA98 8183
    6970 Aug-1998 $2,070 AU50 PCGS Heritage ANA98 8184
    6970 Jan-1998 $1,610 AU50 PCGS Heritage FUN98 (Donald H. Carter) 7041

    I apologize for the table above "shifting" when I post it. Here is a link to the table on the PCGS website.

    https://www.pcgs.com/auctionprices/details?r=6970&v=&dv=1872-S&pf=MS&si=0&c=29&po=1

    W. David Perkins Numismatics - http://www.davidperkinsrarecoins.com/ - 25+ Years ANA, ANS, NLG, NBS, LM JRCS, LSCC, EAC, TAMS, LM CWTS, CSNS, FUN

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    shishshish Posts: 1,106 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Just wanted to share the TV of an example I purchased many years ago. Nice luster, the reverse grades MS-62. She's graded AU-58 by PCGS and approved by CAC.

    Liberty Seated and Trade Dollar Specialist
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    shishshish Posts: 1,106 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Sorry, I'm having difficulty posting the image, could someone help?

    Liberty Seated and Trade Dollar Specialist
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    yosclimberyosclimber Posts: 4,599 ✭✭✭✭✭

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    shishshish Posts: 1,106 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks!!!

    Liberty Seated and Trade Dollar Specialist
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    Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,150 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wow - very neat coin! I bet that made someone's day when it turned up in a jewelry box, or bag of Morgans, or wherever it was that kept it nicely preserved for many years.

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    shishshish Posts: 1,106 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks! Below Is the description written by a knowledgeable dealer.

    This AU-58 is one of the most amazing examples we've ever seen, especially for a coin that is not graded mint state. It has a steel, silvery patina with light-medium highlights. The strike is excellent and the coin has the luster of an MS-62. In fact the reverse is a no-question MS-62+ which makes us wonder if the very faint evidence of rub on the obverse is enough to keep this coin from a mint state holder. Regardless, the new owner will benefit by obtaining a very rare coin in the ideal collector
    grade. Throw away the price guides on this PQ coin.

    Liberty Seated and Trade Dollar Specialist
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    oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 11,906 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 10, 2017 8:19AM

    @shish said:
    Thanks! Below Is the description written by a knowledgeable dealer.

    This AU-58 is one of the most amazing examples we've ever seen, especially for a coin that is not graded mint state. It has a steel, silvery patina with light-medium highlights. The strike is excellent and the coin has the luster of an MS-62. In fact the reverse is a no-question MS-62+ which makes us wonder if the very faint evidence of rub on the obverse is enough to keep this coin from a mint state holder. Regardless, the new owner will benefit by obtaining a very rare coin in the ideal collector
    grade. Throw away the price guides on this PQ coin.

    Looks like someone got a little "touchy feely" with the obverse. Very nice coin!

    Most of the decent Seated Dollars that I have looked at, are quite a bit over market prices.

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    shishshish Posts: 1,106 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yes they are. Decades ago I was at a show examining an a nice choice AU 1857 dollar in Norm pullen's case. I wanted the coin but thought the asking price was high. I asked Norm why he was asking so much over Gray Sheet. He smiled and said if you move to the right one column, the price will be just about right for original seated dollars. Foolishly I did not purchase the coin but his advise definitely helped guide me to make many good future purchases.

    Liberty Seated and Trade Dollar Specialist
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    logger7logger7 Posts: 8,094 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Fortunately now it is relatively easy to check valuations, irrationally high or low pricing with coins at shows, etc. can be checked against auction results. Raw coins are a temptation, but there over a certain price there is no good reason for the coin to be uncertified.

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