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1857 seated quarter clashed with a flying eagle cent...grade?

I rather like this variety, and will probably keep this one around for a while. Does anyone else have one? Let's see yours. What do you think mine grades?



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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm VF. Decades ago, J.T. Stanton offered me one in similar condition for around $200 but I could not swing the price. I've been looking to Cherry one since then with no luck,

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    DoubleEagle59DoubleEagle59 Posts: 8,200 ✭✭✭✭✭

    ef40

    "Gold is money, and nothing else" (JP Morgan, 1912)

    "“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)

    "I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 16, 2017 8:48AM

    Thanks! I forgot this: My personal "old timey" grade VF-35. Modern TPGS: Heck, they may go as high as AU-50 in a Heritage auction! LOL. IMO here, most will grade this coin XF-45 and that's what I should grade it if I worked at a TPGS.

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    BillDugan1959BillDugan1959 Posts: 3,821 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 16, 2017 8:55AM

    .

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    opportunityopportunity Posts: 1,008 ✭✭✭✭

    I was actually just looking at this one this morning: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1857-25C-Liberty-Seated-Quarter-PCGS-XF45-FS-901-Flying-eagle-cent-clash-/162675108015?epid=170434049&hash=item25e03128af:g:eFYAAOSwXedZvBZ5

    I think based on that we could argue that yours is XF45-AU50 because to me yours is clearly nicer assuming no hairlines that can't be seen in your pics.

    Nice coin. I used to have a harshly cleaned F15 that I ended up selling. Not sure if I still have the pics or not.

    Early American Copper, Bust and Seated.

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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BillDugan1959 said:
    It's a decent collectible coin, VF to XF, and I might see some clash marks on the reverse. But clashed with a flying eagle cent? You really gotta show me (like a line drawing over the clash) or at least tell me what you're drinking/ smoking.

    It's gonna be a long hot weekend.

    Look the variety up on the Internet. What may be confusing is the clash from the other coin is upside down. In this grade, it is a "naked eye" example to anyone knowledgeable about the variety.

    Based on the Ebay coin above, I'd get it to our host as it may be graded AU-53!!! :)

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    Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,150 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 16, 2017 9:00AM

    Looks ~xf to me. Never saw one of these.
    I used to own one of the flying eagle cents with the seated quarter clashes in ~vf that I cherried and later sold to Charmy at a FUN show.

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    opportunityopportunity Posts: 1,008 ✭✭✭✭

    @Walkerguy21D said:
    Looks ~xf to me. Never saw one of these.
    I used to own one of the flying eagle cents with the seated quarter clashes in ~vf that I cherried and later sold to Charmy at a FUN show.

    I believe the Flying Eagle's are far more common than the quarters.

    Early American Copper, Bust and Seated.

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    oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 11,906 ✭✭✭✭✭

    XF Details

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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 16, 2017 3:18PM

    @oih82w8 said: "XF Details"

    Do you mean XF detaials or XF "details" (problem grade)?

    If that is the case, what is the problem? Too cleaned in your opinion?

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    MoldnutMoldnut Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭✭

    As you know, I have one of the few graded UNC coins in this variety.

    Derek

    EAC 6024
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    coin22lovercoin22lover Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭

    @Moldnut said:
    As you know, I have one of the few graded UNC coins in this variety.

    I seem to remember, somewhat. Please, refresh my memory.

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    hchcoinhchcoin Posts: 4,825 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Cool

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    CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,564 ✭✭✭✭✭

    My ANACS grade circa 1979-1984, VF-35. Today, EF-40, possibly better.

    But the same amount of detail is worn away!!!

    TD

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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    ldhairldhair Posts: 7,124 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This is mine. I waited for years to find one I liked.


    Larry

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    ldhairldhair Posts: 7,124 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The matching cent.

    Larry

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    ldhairldhair Posts: 7,124 ✭✭✭✭✭


    Larry

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    CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,564 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It sure was exciting back when there were so many great varieties like this being discovered. Bill Fivaz of course discovered many of them. I remember sitting with him at the 1977 ANA convention's error and variety general meeting and he was showing me things he had bought.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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    CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,564 ✭✭✭✭✭

    One was an 1857 F.E. with the odd marks that had been posted in Clearinghouse years before but nobody knew what they were. I studied it for about 20 minutes when the Seated design suddenly popped into my head. I told Bill what it was and after he picked his jaw up off the floor he went out and revolutionized cherry picking.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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    coin22lovercoin22lover Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭

    Very interesting story. And, that one in the old ANACS holder above is absolutely stellar for the grade.

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    DMWJRDMWJR Posts: 5,975 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 16, 2017 8:01PM

    You guys will love this ... my pop 1 PCGS MS64. It's on Coinfacts if you want to see the bigger version

    Doug
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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 16, 2017 10:54PM

    The first one was discovered by an ANACS authenticator in the early 1970's in DC. The owner had no idea even what a clash mark was. It took the rookie authenticator there about three minutes under the scope to figure out what the strange marks on the coin were from. Although he knew what a clash mark was, up to that time none of the "Midnight Minter's" work had been identified so this type of clash was unknown! The quarter was shown to technicians at the Mint Lab to confirm its authenticity.

    I've been looking for this one also with no luck for over 40 years so I'll pass the torch and perhaps one will turn up soon: There is a 1904 $20 Liberty with a reverse clash from another denomination. The clash is visible inside the shield. This was seen at ANACS in DC or INSAB in DC. AFAIK, it was sent out as a normal coin with no mention of the clash. I have a photo of the coin somewhere in my storage room in another state. Happy Hunting!

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    mannie graymannie gray Posts: 7,259 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I grade the OP's coin VF35.

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    ldhairldhair Posts: 7,124 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I was collecting clash die coins at a young age. If it had a clash, I had to have it. Many dealers thought it was just damage and would discount the coin. I could not understand the 1857 cents but I kept buying them. When the news broke, I was a happy camper. Even after the news broke it was easy to Cherrypick the FE clashed with the half dollar, S-9. I wish an example of the $20 gold piece and the half dollar could be found with the clash.

    Larry

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    ldhairldhair Posts: 7,124 ✭✭✭✭✭

    These images were posted on this site many years ago.

    Larry

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    ldhairldhair Posts: 7,124 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I bought this one on EBAY about 20 years ago. I guess you would call it an error slab. Not sure when it was graded. The holder shows it as the reverse being clashed with the half dollar but it's actually clashed with the quarter, S-8.
    Anyone know Jim Heller?

    Larry

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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Bill was one of the top CherryPickers in his day. I'll go so far to say that he and a few others were probably the first. As a beginner in the 1960's I knew very little about RPM's, RPD's etc. Two coins I spent my youth looking for were an 1883 5c with a doubled "S" and the Indian cent with the secret mark rev. Both I learned of from a B&R auction catalog. Talk about a wasted youth! Later as I learned more I did what Bill did and looked at every coin in a dealer's stock. I hated J.T and Bill for their publication but it did open up many new varieties I'd never heard of. LOL.

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    CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,564 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Insider2 said:
    The first one was discovered by an ANACS authenticator in the early 1970's in DC. The owner had no idea even what a clash mark was. It took the rookie authenticator there about three minutes under the scope to figure out what the strange marks on the coin were from. Although he knew what a clash mark was, up to that time none of the "Midnight Minter's" work had been identified so this type of clash was unknown! The quarter was shown to technicians at the Mint Lab to confirm its authenticity.

    I've been looking for this one also with no luck for over 40 years so I'll pass the torch and perhaps one will turn up soon: There is a 1904 $20 Liberty with a reverse clash from another denomination. The clash is visible inside the shield. This was seen at ANACS in DC or INSAB in DC. AFAIK, it was sent out as a normal coin with no mention of the clash. I have a photo of the coin somewhere in my storage room in another state. Happy Hunting!

    Was it ever publicized as a dual-denomination clash mark? You know the old saying that I just made up:

    "Publish Pictures or it Didn't Happen!"

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 17, 2017 7:04PM

    "Publish Pictures or it Didn't Happen! I like that and agree! :)

    Perhaps the greedy fellow who discovered it may have wanted to look for one for himself. Additionally, I'll bet it was logged in as a normal 1857 25c in the ANACS logbook too. Next time I see the authenticator who discovered it, I'll ask him what happened. :wink:

    BTW, AFAIK he did not tell anyone about the $20 Lib either until a short time ago. I even heard a story about a 1918/7 Mercury dime! As you stated, "Nothing published, nothing there!" Probably Just old bar stories. LOL.

    Along the same lines, I don't think the 1877/6 50c was ever published either until many, many years after it was first discovered!

    One more thing I can say for 100% certainty. There are many very interesting coins that no one knows about yet as their discover's look for more examples. One story I heard about the 1877/6 50c is that one of the major TPGS refused to certify it as a genuine overdate because no other example existed at the time - nothing was published either. Even the Liberty Seated experts refused to acknowledge it was an actual overdate coin. How sad. :(

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    BIGAL2749BIGAL2749 Posts: 742 ✭✭✭✭

    AFAIK he did not tell anyone about the $20 Lib ???

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