New So-Called Dollar Variety Discovery! Alaska-Yukon Pacific Exposition
Zoins
Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
I was recently looking at and admiring the new So-Called Dollar Fellowship medals using a George Morgan die and noticed that it's different than the two dies for HK-353 and HK-356a.
These new medals were made by Dan Carr ( @dcarr ) and Jeff Shevlin ( @SoCalledGuy ).
Here are some links and photos:
- HK-353 and HK-356a: http://so-calleddollars.com/Events/Alaska_Yukon_Pacific.html
It seems like the die used in the So-Called Dollar Fellowship is a "new" die and not HK-353 or HK-356a. I based this on the height of the surrounding letters as well as the end location of the flagpoles over the 1909 date. The most telling diagnostic for me is the flagpole location over the 1 in 1909. Should this one be called HK-356b?
The photos on so-calleddollars.com are good, but I also found some larger photos to better compare below. I'm still looking for photos of a contemporary medal struck using the SCD Fellowship die.
On the one hand, it's kind of cool I noticed this but, on the other, I'm surprised I get excited about this now!
HK-353 from Bill on CoinPeople.com
http://www.coinpeople.com/topic/30920-1909-alaska-yukon-pacific-exposition/
HK-356a from John Raymond
http://www.socalleddollar.com/abworldsfairs.html
SCF from Jeff Shevlin, photo by greysoldier46 on eBay
Of note, it's great that Jeff had his piece struck around the centennial of the AYPE!
http://web.archive.org/web/20090106035957/http://www.aype.org/Projects/
It seems like the 2 sites at the time were:
Comments
please, let's not start collecting SC$'s by die variety.
Too late.
And why not ? Some of the die varieties are fairly significant and/or rare.
Example of a so-called dollar variety that is already collected:
AB Bumstead Lesher Dollar with scrolls | AB Bumstead Lesher Dollar without scrolls
The most significant difference between the Shevlin die and the earlier so-called dollars is the diameter.
HK-353 and related are 32mm. The Shevlin die is 35mm.
Bought 3 pieces of gold recently from that expo. They graded MS ATS. Hart's gold ? I know it's not so relative to the SCD's. Denomination ? DWT.
Don't shoot the messenger.
Interesting.
The only design that resembles George Morgan's work is HK-357. The others are of much lower quality workmanship. Did the exposition officers have a local "artist" modify a copy die and combine with the new reverse? Just some thoughts.....
Indeed some are very rare. John Raymond mentions on his website that the only 2 examples of HK-356a he's seen are his and the Brian Silliman specimen on so-calleddollars.com.
They are related to SCDs! The 1 DWT is listed as HK-360 because it is the size of a gold dollar!
Based on this, the ¼ DWT could be a So-Called Quarter Dollar
Sounds like this could be an interesting research project! I think there's a lot of opportunity for So-Called Dollar research to expand on the info we have.
The US Mint and Treasury were present at many expos so more info from government records could be especially interesting.
It was commonplace for the Treasury and Mint to set up a display at various expositions (think of the ANA Convention) and strike souvenir medals on premises. A guide to these US Mint souvenir medals could be very interesting and a nice side-light to Commemorative coins and official exposition medals.
PS: Records of expositions are in RG 104 - Mint, and RG 56 Treasury. Most are organized as project files so they are easy to find. The exception is the Columbian Exposition which has the usual project files plus hundreds of letters mixed with general correspondence relating to the medals.
@keets
Please don't muck up a thread with crazy opinions. You should know better. The more we learn...
Here are some photos of HK-353 and HK-355 with their official envelopes. HK-353 is from Bill Shamhart and of HK-355 is from Bill at CoinPeople.com. I have to say that Bill there seems like a fairly prolific collector!
Of interest, it mentions these (HK-353 - HK-356?) were struck by the US Mint and that orders for duplicates should be made to Joseph Mayer & Brothers, official distributors of the medals.
I also just noticed that the word "Enterprise" is curved in HK-353-356 and the Shevlin die but is straight on HK-356a.
http://www.numismaticamericana.com/sales-repository/1909-medal-hk-353-silver-alaska-yukon-expo-pcgs-ms64/
http://www.coinpeople.com/topic/30920-1909-alaska-yukon-pacific-exposition/
Of note, Paul Middents is researching Joseph Mayer:
http://nawcc50.org/Joseph_Mayer_Research_Project.html
Joseph Mayer & Brothers created many AYPE souvenirs in various forms using versions of the medal design. I collect and catalog non-AYPE medals that were made in Seattle by the Mayer Bros from 1898 to the mid-1920's - they made many. I have the Ketcherside book which has information on Joseph Mayer and his brothers, mostly about the street clocks and silver items with only a brief mention of medals. There is a lot yet to research about the Mayer brothers, they were the dominant PNW artists in street clocks, jewelry, silversmithing, and medals.
From Volume 22 of The Numismatist:
https://books.google.com/books?id=PpAUAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA252
Here's the cover just because I thought it was neat:
Very interesting @Zoins. I picked up a silver one, with a cracked planchet error, because it was a Carr / Morgan collaboration piece so speak. How could I say no to that. Also note the heavy die polishing to remove clashing.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/hz9Sh46ePLrqxefi6
I wish to issue a WARNING. Counterfeit tokens are being made and have already entered the market. So far, I've not seen any of the "big ones' such as posted here and I'm not going to make any further comments on anything posted here that I don't see in hand.
All I will say is that Ebay is flooded with the lesser aluminum types so far such as the "Pony Express" and some "Lindberg Types." There is also a very well made "new" counterfeit 1909 AYPE 1/4 Dwt on the market. It is the type certified above by NGC (which is genuine) but the fake is not crude as the genuine pieces above.
When I get one I can photograph, I will post it. Hopefully, the token experts at the TPGS will be very vigilant and research the dies before slabbing SC$.
Great pieces @CascadeChris! Love the cracked planchet error! As for the clashing, not sure when it was polished but it would have been nice to have some strikes with the clashing too!
As a SCD and a Dan fan, I couldn't resist picking up a few of these either. The antiqued copper one looks like it's struck through grease.
I came into possession of AYPE HK-356a, NGC MS-63BN at nearly the same time this thread began. I purchased it on E bay. I collect AYPE so-called dollars and also have an ungraded HK-368a. I was astounded when I saw this medal listed on E bay for $130.00!
Great pickup! I wonder how many HK-356a exist? They seem pretty rare!
Regarding the purchase of the above, HK-356a SCD: This medal is graded as MS-62 BN. The medal's appearance and patina are brown and I see no silver tarnishing remotely akin to silver tarnishing I've seen prior (I'm a senior and ex-military = I've polished more silver & brass,,,. Moreover, the color and patina are slightly darker than a AYPE HK-354, MS-62 bronze medal. Any thoughts?
I grew up near the University of Washington, the site of the Alaska-Yukon Pacific Exposition. The AYPE medals are the heart of my collection. I am only lacking and am seeking is the President Taft Dollar. HK-361, the President Taft Dollar. I have much to trade.
Have you tried contacting Jeff Shevlin?
Jeff wants to purchase this medal. I will only think of trading this medal if a HK-361 of MS-63 is offered in trade...and then something. This variation is too rare.
I have a HK-356a, in XF or so. Bought it on eBay for $40. There are few examples known, but I'm not convinced how rare it is. It's the sort of thing that could easily be mistaken for a commoner piece... which suggests to me that there are likely a lot more of them out there that currently are misidentified...
I was so astonished to see this graded medal in such shape I shut down my computer browser in utter denial, went back on-line to E bay and bought the medal. I like that type of shock! I also found a Pendleton Round-up, HK-568, MS-65 for $35.00. I like E-bay. I'm a Washingtonian.
Please excuse the lack of quality of this photo as this is my first attempt at coin photography and photo shopping. The medal is matte brown.
Nice HK-356A @1patwick!
It would be great to get more information on the origins of HK-356A. Have any of them ever been found with one of the official envelopes with John Edward Chilberg's printed signature?
Thanks Zoins!
I've been searching the web for any info on this medal, to no avail. I'm just as curious about other unlisted AYPE SCD's: http://www.socalleddollar.com/index.html
I didn't start out to complete a AYPE collection but have been blessed by incredible drop dead, idiotic Luck as my AYPE collection is nearly complete. Next year I'll be sending my raw AYPE for grading and begin a registry set with PCGS.
As a Life member of ANA and thereby have membership in another grading org. which will not grade unlisted SCD's, which I own, makes my choice of grading companies simple. The search for more info on this medal and others began with this thread and have ended at the above web site; any help will be gratefully appreciated.
Aw shoot. it's a fob!
Save for etched graffiti this is a find and I'll keep it.
That's cool! What diameter is it?
Diam 39mm
Sweet. Looks like we have another one to catalog for HK if we can find one without the FOB! It's great that it's official too!
Unfortunately a former owner scratched his initials onto the reverse however, given the age, I think I'll keep it. My AYPE collection is a Taft Dollar and a silver Utah dollar (which is too rich for me) away from completion and I also have another unlisted dollar*, a brass 32.1 mm medal. I also need the aluminum dollar on this list.
http://www.socalleddollar.com/abWorldsFairs.html
72) This piece is evidently listed in the first edition of HK as HK364(but with no actual image of the obverse). It is not listed in the second edition. This piece and the one above both measure 32.1 mm, so technically both are too small for inclusion as so called dollars. But the original authors of HK included HK353, so I guess these also need to be let in(See what happens when you open the barn door, even a crack? In this case we let one in, and in walk two others. This is why I am pretty adamant about not allowing any piece in as a so called dollar that is below an absolute minimum of 32.6mm - rounded up equaling 33mm). A US mint product? Rare(read #71 above). Gilt, 32.1 mm in diameter as is HK353.
I didn’t know that HK 2nd edition removed pieces cataloged in the 1st edition. Do you know how many were removed?
Here's one for sale (expensive but maybe worth negotiating with Alex on):
https://www.tipsicocoin.com/tokens-medals/hk-361-taft-visit-to-1909-a-y-p-exposition-ngc-ms-64-pop-top
A So-Called Dollar and Slug Collector... Previously "Pioneer" on this site...
Has an original token ever been found using the Shevlin type die? Is there one in Jeff and Bill's new guide?