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George Bache Soley Medallettes and Tokens
Zoins
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Recently a collection of Soley's tokens were sold on the bay and I was wondering if a catalog exists of these given the variety of these that exist.
Soley purchased the first US Steam Coining Press after it was retired and used that press to strike many of these. Some of his pieces were also sold by the US Mint in the Philadelphia Mint store.
Please post yours if you have any.
Here are some from the sale:
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Not all of those were struck by Soley. The seller was incorrect in attributing all of those to him. While that cannot be completely confirmed, due to a lack of record, there are clearly a few that just don't belong.
Good to know. I agree that some of them look like they don't fit. I was mostly focusing on the brass ones myself. Can you list the ones you think are Soley's and the ones that aren't?
Here are the one one's that I believe ARE NOT Soley. My determination is based on the reverse design, medalette size, color, denticle size and form, and engraving quality. Of course I have no written documentation.
I have a couple myself, but I do not have access to them right now to take photos. They include a couple that are based off of US Mint Medals:
And I know there are some pretty serious collectors of these things out there. Any lurkers want to join in?
Soley and William Barber had a thriving medal business on the side during the 1870s.. Soley also made his own reducing machine so he could cut steel hubs from Barber's models. Charles Barber also did work for the business. Soley died in early 1908.... April I think.
Do you think it was likely (or plausible) that Morgan contributed as well?
HERE is Soley's grave (which I've posted before). They say March 26, but I don't know where that originates from.
No. Morgan was an Assistant Engraver under Charles Barber and had never been on especially good terms with the Barber family. Morgan had his own side business and was also a federal union representative.
Yes I agree, not all are Soley's designs however most of them are. Unfortunately there's not a database, book or link to show which ones were actually minted by George B. Soley. I heard there was a list online a couple years ago but now it's gone. Anyone know where I can find a list?
Look for the Soley family heirs and hope there are letters and working documents?
I got this medal last week, I hope it's a Soley but I really don't know for sure. Looks to be made of bronze and it's 19mm. Still a cool medal but because it was made in 1909 maybe it was made buy someone else. Anyone know? Darn, I just realized GoldenEgg had made a list, nevermind.
Old Thread Update
Do we know if Barber did any, or all, of the designs for the Lord's Prayer Medallettes?
It's interesting that this newspaper article says Soley used dies made for the U.S. Mint:
For reference, Bill from CoinPeople.com has a pretty extensive collection of these that he's posted here:
http://www.coinpeople.com/topic/20911-lords-prayer-tokens/
Here's another thread on CoinTalk regarding one for "The Bourse".
https://www.cointalk.com/threads/the-bourse-token-us-mint-or-george-b-soley.239071/
It would be great to find this.
The disappearance of websites over the years is one reason I'm leaning towards PDF references.
It's actually great that NNP archives E-Sylum. I wonder if other sites could be gifted to NNP for posterity?
Soley and William, later Charles, Barber had a cheap medal business on the side. This was complained about in the mid-1870s and Dir. Linderman determined that it did not interfere with government business. The 1894 stoppage was because the medals and pamphlets were being sold in the Mint for the personal profit of the guides, rather than to benefit the Mint Cabinet of Coins.
@RogerB Good info. Since you mentioned Soley had a reducing machine to cut steel hubs from Barber's models, is it known which medallettes were designed by William and Charles Barber?
The records were likely part of the Barber (Wm & Ch) Estates and discarded after Charles death.
Ouch, that's such a shame. It could have been sold at auction for quite a bit. Wish it ended up with Newman and then scanned into NNP.
I wonder if George Soley, William Barber and Charles Barber's styles were different enough that it can be determined from examining the pieces.
I've never seen a definitive list of Soley pieces. Gene Hynds is the man, and if his collection ever comes out, that will probably be the best reference.
Good info. Does he have anything posted on his collection? It would be great to have a reference can be written.
I wonder who's collection was sold in the OP. I see all kinds of collections go to sale without a provenance. It would be nice to have a bit of knowledge on these collections.
Soley did the mechanical parts. He also made all the reductions at the Mint using the Hill machine. From a few examples I've seen, I don't think enough artistic effort went into the partnership's products to make a style discernible. They made cheap goods on short schedule for a market that wanted nothing more.
Back in the late 90's I had a self-described dotcom guy that lived part time in the Caribbean who was an active bidder in my mail auctions. During one sale when he phoned in his bids we got into a discussion about some U.S. Centennial medals which slid into some talk about Soley. He mentioned that he had purchased Soley's booth/exhibit from the Centennial Expo that had been stored away since the late 1800's. It included the signage and some sales displays of the medalettes for sale but none of the actual machinery (which Soley continued to use for many years). I believed the guy as he was knowledgeable and straight up in our frequent dealings but he (and possibly the exhibit?) disappeared abruptly during the dotcom shake out.
Wow! Thanks for posting! I knew some people made out well during the first dotcom boom. People told me they literally had warehouses of stuff they didn't need but just felt like buying at the time. I wonder when something like Soley's booth will see the light of day again.
I recently purchased a small group of Soley 13mm tokens. Does anyone else collect these or have a list of them?
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There are several here that collect them. You need to search the forum for the topic.
I know @zoins is a big fan of Soley.
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CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
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Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
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More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
Those are in exceptional condition. The Dewey and Roosevelt are especially nice. Congrats on the cool pickups.
I'm have a decent collection of the 13mm medalettes and many other Soley pieces. When I first started collecting them, I was told they were worthless but I persisted
Congrats on these pieces. I love them!
Here's the main thread on these for collections. They sort of grew organically. I should rename these two threads so they are better identified for their content.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1021607/george-soley-medals
I have a couple of silver pieces like this:
Since there's no resource for these little medals, I wonder if we could create a list of them (just the 13mm for now). I have the following:
U.S. MINT
BROOKLYN BRIDGE
LIBERTY BELL
BIRTH PLACE OF LIBERTY (Independence Hall)
(Crown & Cross)
(Crown, Crossed Swords, & Masonic Symbols on Cross)
GOD AND OUR COUNTRY (George Washington)
COLUMBUS
WM. PENN
W. McKINLEY
LINCOLN
U.S. GRANT
THEODORE ROOSEVELT
ADMIRAL DEWEY USN
I'd love to do a reference, but it may need to wait till I'm retired right now
A good way to do it may be to add them to TokenCatalog.com with Soley in the description.
Here are two more I just picked up. Need to break out the high resolution imaging system for these!
Not sure if this one is Soley or not but it's a bit of a variation on the IOOF piece above.
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Busy chasing Carr's . . . . . woof!
Successful BST transactions with: Bullsitter, Downtown1974, P0CKETCHANGE, Twobitcollector, AKbeez, DCW, Illini420, ProofCollection, DCarr, Cazkaboom, RichieURich, LukeMarshall, carew4me, BustDMs, coinsarefun, PreTurb, felinfoal, jwitten, GoldenEgg, pruebas, lazybones, COCollector, CuKevin, MWallace, USMC_6115, NamVet69, zippcity, . . . . who'd I forget?
Grand Army of the Republic piece I believe.
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Busy chasing Carr's . . . . . woof!
Successful BST transactions with: Bullsitter, Downtown1974, P0CKETCHANGE, Twobitcollector, AKbeez, DCW, Illini420, ProofCollection, DCarr, Cazkaboom, RichieURich, LukeMarshall, carew4me, BustDMs, coinsarefun, PreTurb, felinfoal, jwitten, GoldenEgg, pruebas, lazybones, COCollector, CuKevin, MWallace, USMC_6115, NamVet69, zippcity, . . . . who'd I forget?
1884 Cincinnati Industrial Exposition
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Busy chasing Carr's . . . . . woof!
Successful BST transactions with: Bullsitter, Downtown1974, P0CKETCHANGE, Twobitcollector, AKbeez, DCW, Illini420, ProofCollection, DCarr, Cazkaboom, RichieURich, LukeMarshall, carew4me, BustDMs, coinsarefun, PreTurb, felinfoal, jwitten, GoldenEgg, pruebas, lazybones, COCollector, CuKevin, MWallace, USMC_6115, NamVet69, zippcity, . . . . who'd I forget?