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Ideas on Greek coin collecting

I'm trying to migrate away from the US coin side to ancients. But I'm having a hard time letting go of the security of date/mintmark series collecting. How does one form a collection of Ancient Greece as opposed to just forming an accumulation? The advice out there seems to be basically "collect what you like". That's completely opposite to the tyranny of Dansco Album hole-filling on which I have been trained. Please help!

Comments

  • topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm new at this transition, too.
    My focus is on personal esthetics.
    If I like the looks, I can research the story behind it.

    Overly simplified? Maybe, but it's fun and the grade race on US coins became not very.

  • MrBreezeMrBreeze Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭

    I find that with ancients or any world coin, in general, I know it when I see it (similar to topstuf). I go through inventories and auctions and basically go, blah, blah, blah, ho ,hum ,ho ,hum, WOW! When I say wow, I bookmark that coin and bid within my budget to get it. If I get it, awesome, if I don't, that's fine too. There are so many "Wows" outside of US coins that I never get dissatisfied with what is available.

  • SmEagle1795SmEagle1795 Posts: 2,135 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MrBreeze said:
    I find that with ancients or any world coin, in general, I know it when I see it (similar to topstuf). I go through inventories and auctions and basically go, blah, blah, blah, ho ,hum ,ho ,hum, WOW! When I say wow, I bookmark that coin and bid within my budget to get it. If I get it, awesome, if I don't, that's fine too. There are so many "Wows" outside of US coins that I never get dissatisfied with what is available.

    That's a good strategy. I'd definitely suggest either getting a few books or browsing auctions/collector websites to see where tastes gravitate.

    Art vs history vs important figures... They're all represented and you can make a collection whatever you wish. It is less structured than date/mintmark collecting in US but it can be treated like a typeset: you just get to choose whether you want to include "gold" or pre-1834, for example.

    Learn about our world's shared history told through the first millennium of coinage: Colosseo Collection
  • savitalesavitale Posts: 1,406 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks for the comments. Glad to hear I'm not missing something obvious too. I have looked at lots of websites and auctions to see what appeals to me. This might be tautological, but I seem to be most attracted to the most attractive coins. I wonder if a collection of beautiful Greek coins would be fulfilling, without worrying much about date, region, etc.

  • SmEagle1795SmEagle1795 Posts: 2,135 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @savitale said:
    Thanks for the comments. Glad to hear I'm not missing something obvious too. I have looked at lots of websites and auctions to see what appeals to me. This might be tautological, but I seem to be most attracted to the most attractive coins. I wonder if a collection of beautiful Greek coins would be fulfilling, without worrying much about date, region, etc.

    That's what I'm doing and loving it :)

    Learn about our world's shared history told through the first millennium of coinage: Colosseo Collection
  • savitalesavitale Posts: 1,406 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I just became aware of the "Box of 20" concept. Maybe I'll try that. I suppose that means they will have to be NGC graded. From what I hear, slabbing doesn't increase the value of ancients, but it doesn't hurt the value either.

  • topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭

    NGC is the standard for the darkside.
    They are just fine. :)

  • JCMhoustonJCMhouston Posts: 5,306 ✭✭✭

    In ancients I am gravitating towards pieces I just find interesting, not even trying to specialize at this point.

  • TheRavenTheRaven Posts: 4,143 ✭✭✭✭

    if you find it interesting and like the look you can't go wrong.

    Collection under construction: VG Barber Quarters & Halves
  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I started with Greek bronze. Very beautiful, very interesting, and very inexpensive in higher grades.

  • lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,194 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It is an adjustment, but you'll enjoy the process.

    When your brain isn't aching.


    Explore collections of lordmarcovan on CollecOnline, management, safe-keeping, sharing and valuation solution for art piece and collectibles.
  • lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,194 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 18, 2017 5:22PM

    @JCMhouston said:
    In ancients I am gravitating towards pieces I just find interesting, not even trying to specialize at this point.

    This is where I stand as well, particularly with Greeks.

    If you feel you still need structure, and holes to fill, I'd recommend trying a Roman "Twelve Caesars" collection, first, to move into ancients. You only need twelve coins for that, but it is challenging. And since these will be coins from the first century BC and AD, they still have artistic merit. Not like the exceptional Greek masterpieces, but more appealing than the cruder issues struck when Rome was in decline.

    Or if you want to go straight to the Greeks, you could follow any of a number of themes like deities or creatures or whatever. @Sapyx covered this admirably.

    Collect what you like. I abandoned structured sets four years ago and did a Box of 20. Now it's more of a Box of 25. You can see my (non-structured) collection (including some Greeks) in my sigline link.

    Or here: https://www.cointalk.com/threads/lord-marcovans-eclectic-box-collection-as-of-july-28-2017.300444

    Going "freestyle" did take some getting used to. But it was also liberating.

    Of course if you wish to see a world class collection of nothing but high-end, incredible ancients, look no further than @SmEagle1795's collection.


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  • savitalesavitale Posts: 1,406 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @lordmarcovan said:

    Collect what you like. I abandoned structured sets four years ago and did a Box of 20. Now it's more of a Box of 25. You can see my (non-structured) collection (including some Greeks) in my sigline link.

    Or here: https://www.cointalk.com/threads/lord-marcovans-eclectic-box-collection-as-of-july-28-2017.300444

    Going "freestyle" did take some getting used to. But it was also liberating.

    I'm speechless. That is an incredibly beautiful collection.

  • lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,194 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 19, 2017 12:08AM

    @savitale said:

    @lordmarcovan said:

    Collect what you like. I abandoned structured sets four years ago and did a Box of 20. Now it's more of a Box of 25. You can see my (non-structured) collection (including some Greeks) in my sigline link.

    Or here: https://www.cointalk.com/threads/lord-marcovans-eclectic-box-collection-as-of-july-28-2017.300444

    Going "freestyle" did take some getting used to. But it was also liberating.

    I'm speechless. That is an incredibly beautiful collection.

    Thank you. That was all "done on a budget", so to speak. The only thing in there that cost me north of $1K was the 1842-D USA half-eagle (@ $2.3K). Everything else cost me less than $1K, and most of it $500 or less per coin.

    As mentioned, I abandoned structured sets when I sold almost everything I had in 2013 and started this collection. So I am totally "freestyle" now. I buy what I want - be it coin, token, or medal, ancient, medieval, or modern, US or worldwide. But I do try to keep a variety of diverse pieces that represent as much of the history of world coinage as possible.

    It has been very educational and fun. Do I miss filling predetermined holes in albums, or collecting sets along those lines? Sometimes. But the payoffs of this "eclectic", freestyle collection have been worth it. There's no more buying something I don't really want just because I need it to fill a hole. No more need to chase key dates, unless I want to. No more buying something really sweet on on an impulse, only to have to sell it later because "it doesn't fit any of my collections". I wish I could tell you how many sweet coins I sold before just because they were "outside my primary focus" and didn't fit any of my sets.

    By all means, make rules for yourself, and stick to them if you can, but keep 'em simple, and follow your instincts.

    And if you want to see a really amazing collection, just look at @SmEagle1795's, here.

    Most mere mortals like yours truly could never hope to amass such a collection. But it's fun to admire.


    Explore collections of lordmarcovan on CollecOnline, management, safe-keeping, sharing and valuation solution for art piece and collectibles.
  • The Hellenic Museum at the previous Royal Mint will soon play host to a surprising accumulation of accumulations.

    Propelling in mid-May, the display unites private accumulations of Greek earthenware and coins running from 1600 BC until 1974.

    The accumulations themselves are exclusive by Greek-Australians, and have been united by caretaker Peter Minard.

    "It's three rooms covering three key eras: old Greece, the Byzantine Empire and the Modern Greek state," he says.

    "The all-encompassing topic of the presentation is asking, 'what is Greece?'

    "You consider England and you think about that one little island. You consider Greece and it's so undefined." Curator Peter Minard

    Since Greece has had such a significant number of various political frameworks, such a significant number of various religions, covers such tremendous geological region, it's Greece as a thought more than a place."

    The presentation is Minard's first as keeper, having principally done legacy work before. He is part-route through a PhD ever, which is the reason the show provoked his advantage.

    "I lifted it up because in light of the fact that it's such an intriguing region, since Greece is so difficult to characterize."

    "You consider England and you think about that one little island. You consider Greece and it's so indistinct.

    CHOICES -- BOOKS % GIFTS FOR WELLNESS

  • savitalesavitale Posts: 1,406 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @lordmarcovan said:

    Thank you. That was all "done on a budget", so to speak. The only thing in there that cost me north of $1K was the 1842-D USA half-eagle (@ $2.3K). Everything else cost me less than $1K, and most of it $500 or less per coin.

    That makes it even more impressive!

    And if you want to see a really amazing collection, just look at @SmEagle1795's, here.

    Most mere mortals like yours truly could never hope to amass such a collection. But it's fun to admire.

    Thanks for the link. It it truly a "museum quality" collection. Probably better than most museums actually. Fiscal realities prevent me from aspiring to such lofty coins at this time but it is helpful to see what is possible. Especially in a set with no obvious strict theme other than beautiful and important Greek and Roman coins.

  • SmEagle1795SmEagle1795 Posts: 2,135 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks! I appreciate the compliments!

    Learn about our world's shared history told through the first millennium of coinage: Colosseo Collection
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Are there Registry Sets for ancients?

  • lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,194 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 21, 2017 2:08AM

    @Zoins said:
    Are there Registry Sets for ancients?

    No, because there would be no way of creating algorithms for them. Registry sets depend on numerical grades and prestructured set parameters (to calculate the percentage of completion), neither of which lend themselves well to ancient coins.

    When one takes up ancient coins, one should bear in mind that there is not really such thing as a "complete set" of anything in ancients. Not even for the major museums of the world.

    The only way to come up with a "completable" set of ancients is for the collector himself (or herself) to determine what the parameters will be. For example, the popular "Twelve Caesars" collection in Roman coins, which I alluded to above. Sure, one can calculate the percentage of completion in that particular case, because there are twelve coins to complete the set (twelve emperors). But within those twelve "holes" to fill, there is a truly staggering variety of denominations, metals, and types. And even if one is discussing two coins of the very same type and variety, there can still be differences of style.

    A Registry set for ancient coins is simply impossible. They're all as individual as snowflakes, and were created by hand.

    They do not have the sameness of modern mass-produced coinage, so they can't be pigeonholed the same way.

    This is part of their appeal. But it does not lend itself well to things like Registry collecting.

    Ancient numismatics is a whole different culture and requires a different mindset. It can take a while to adjust to if you're accustomed to collecting more "modern" machine-struck coinage.


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  • TheRavenTheRaven Posts: 4,143 ✭✭✭✭

    I like seeing ancient in hand when trying to add to my collection. Been a while been to a show that has ancients. Annoying. The coins in this thread are pretty sweet.

    Collection under construction: VG Barber Quarters & Halves
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 22, 2017 8:04AM

    @lordmarcovan said:
    They're all as individual as snowflakes, and were created by hand.

    Are they each carved individually like say hobo nickels or more struck individually like John Hull's Massachusetts shillings? I was under the impression they were more like the shillings which do have registry sets.

  • savitalesavitale Posts: 1,406 ✭✭✭✭✭

    They are struck by hand, and often badly offcenter, weakly struck, on flans of varying size and shape, etc. So no two are exactly alike.

    NGC offers something like a Registry Set here:
    https://coins.www.collectors-society.com/wcm/CoinCustomSetListing.aspx?csc=12
    But it is not quantitative, just a way to display your collection, really.

    I think one could create registry sets but the scoring would be based on some judge's opinion. Best Athenian Collection, Best Corinthian Stater Collection, etc. You couldn't take it too seriously since it would be just someone's opinion. But it might be fun.

  • lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,194 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:

    @lordmarcovan said:
    They're all as individual as snowflakes, and were created by hand.

    Are they each carved individually like say hobo nickels or more struck individually like John Hull's Massachusetts shillings? I was under the impression they were more like the shillings which do have registry

    They were mostly struck with dies, so more like your MA shilling example.

    As @savitale mentioned, the only option for registering Ancient coins is in a Custom (noncompetitive) set.


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