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Damaged Countermarked 8R - Even More Additional Photos Added - Thoughts on what to do with it?

Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,147 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited August 16, 2017 5:53PM in World & Ancient Coins Forum

All -

I posted this photo on the US Forum yesterday, in a thread dealing with coins countermarked by the Bank of England ~1797 through the early 1800's, for use in Britain

Anyway, what do you guys think about this one? Yes, the damage is bad and unfortunate. Looks like someone hit it with a sword or some similar object a very long time ago.
The reverse is fine, other than the 'bulge' opposite the side of the countermark.
I'm assuming it's genuine, or at worst the stamp is fake but done as a contemporary.
It's too late to 'pass', as I've owned for >12 years.

Is it worth having it professionally repaired? Or would the expense outweigh any additional value?
I don't see a lot of these around, and most of the ones I have seen have later dates....but I don't know if there is a substantial market for these anyway, especially with major damage.

Thanks in advance.


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    BillDugan1959BillDugan1959 Posts: 3,821 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 15, 2017 4:24PM

    I'd keep it as is, and I wouldn't be embarrassed by it one bit. Desirable under coin (by type) and good early date.

    You could argue that all of these countermarked coins are "damaged" and this one is just "more damaged".

    I do not have sufficient knowledge about the overall authenticity. The countermark is nice (maybe too nice). The undercoin circulated a lot before it was over stamped. I would be interested in the weight of this piece. The undercoin is from Lima rather than Mexico City.

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    Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,147 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't have a means to weigh it accurately.
    I did perform a 'ring test' on a granite countertop along with a couple others,
    and it appears to be silver, and there is nothing suspicious on the coin's edges.

    Anyone else?

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    TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,539 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The host doesn't appear to be authentic, not sure about the counterstamp. Mind if i post this in some counterfeit groups? Weight would help, too. Also, any chance you can shine the light into the cut and take a close-up? It's not a "sword cut", but a common practice back in the day to test for silver plating.


    8 Reales Madness Collection
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    BillDugan1959BillDugan1959 Posts: 3,821 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It does still boggle my mind that people spend thousands of dollars on their coins, but don't have a twenty dollar electronic scale.

    'Ring test' is borderline a destructive test, FWIW.

    Nice enough piece in my book, but I hope that someone who knows these George III punches/ stamps weighs in here.

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    Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,147 ✭✭✭✭✭

    TwoKopeiki - yes, you may post the images to anyone you want.
    I will try tonight to get an image of the cut.

    As for the ring test, I certainly wouldn't do it on anything high grade, where slight visual impairment could occur. But yes, I should pursue a small investment in a good scale.

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    BillDugan1959BillDugan1959 Posts: 3,821 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Again, I think this is a pretty nice piece, just wish somebody with much more experience would Join in the thread.

    The cut may well represent somebody's contemporary attempt to confirm that the piece was good silver.

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    ashelandasheland Posts: 22,688 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That counterstamp is a duty mark, the same as was used on all of the silver wares that were hallmarked in London during that time.
    The mark looks good to me from what I am seeing. The coin looks authentic, just harshly cleaned. I wouldn't try to repair it, the damage is already done. I like it FWIW.
    London, 1790 hallmarks:

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    TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,539 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I posted this on the Spanish Counterfeit forum - will see what they say. The counterstamp is not dead-on to the oval GIII that @asheland posted, but like i said - not my area. The coin still looks counterfeit to me, but if you could post images of the test cut and the edge, it would help.


    8 Reales Madness Collection
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    ashelandasheland Posts: 22,688 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The duty marks would vary in size slightly, but it looks correct to me in his picture.
    An interesting example for sure. :)

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    7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 7,255 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Petition Crown may have a thing or two to say...?? Not an expert, but the reverse doesn't look to great as far as authenticity IMO.

    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
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    worldcoinguyworldcoinguy Posts: 2,999 ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 16, 2017 10:52AM

    I am not sure this advances the conversation, but I was in London last week and happened to tour the mint display at the Tower of London. I snapped a shot of some of the counterstamped coins in the display.

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    worldcoinguyworldcoinguy Posts: 2,999 ✭✭✭✭

    Zoomed in detail.

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    Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,147 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very cool, worldcoinguy!
    Billjones posted a blowup on that same '99 dollar on the thread on the US forum a couple days ago.

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    Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,147 ✭✭✭✭✭





    Successful BST transactions with 170 members. Recent: Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug
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    BillDugan1959BillDugan1959 Posts: 3,821 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks for the extra photos.

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    coinnerdcoinnerd Posts: 491 ✭✭✭
    edited August 16, 2017 8:15PM 
      The coin has a test cut. As mentioned before this was commonly done to be sure the coin was solid silver and not plated. That is the only reason for it. You will find this on trade coinage throughout time. A lot of Athenian Owl coins and other large denomination ancients have deep cuts like this.

    It has been circulated a lot. I wouldn't mess with it. The cut adds to the coin more than detracts from it. IMO

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    ashelandasheland Posts: 22,688 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Dang it! I want one!

    ;)

    My YouTube Channel

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    StorkStork Posts: 5,205 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @petitioncrown
    Tagging you because @7Jaguars threw your name out here earlier in the thread and I'm hoping this gets your attention...this is very interesting!

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    CIVITASCIVITAS Posts: 2,256 ✭✭✭

    Host coin looks fine to me. The Peruvian and Bolivian portrait coins often had a strange look to them when compared to the more frequently seen Mexican issues. The lettering and bust frequently looked smaller/thinner and spaced further apart. Can't really judge the countermark from the photos, but looks like it's probably OK.

    image
    https://www.civitasgalleries.com

    New coins listed monthly!

    Josh Moran

    CIVITAS Galleries, Ltd.
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    TPRCTPRC Posts: 3,739 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here is my 4 reale...

    Tom

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