Huggins and Scott
gregm13
Posts: 5,798 ✭✭✭
Wow - I don't post on here often any more, but I wanted to share my recent experience with H&S. This was my first experience consigning to an auction house and was for the H&S auction that ended last week.
When I met with two H&S employees, they told me of the record breaking prices that they've been getting for vintage signed football cards. I was originally going to consign only 8-12 items, but decided to include more cards after listening to their "spiel". I talked to several friends who dealt with them in the past and received mostly positive references. Based on the above, I pulled the trigger.
Well - I got absolutely massacred. Out of the 38 auctions, I failed to get bids on 9 (thanks god). Of the remaining 29 lots that sold, I averaged less than 50 cents on the dollar. For example,
$300 (1 bid) 2001 Upper Deck Rookie F/X Jim Conzelman Certified Cut Autograph #/9 - PSA Mint 9-worth at least $750+
$250 (1 bid) 2002 SP Legendary Cuts Football Link Lyman Certified Cut Autograph - PSA Gem Mint 10-worth at least $750+
$675 1948 Bowman Football Signed Card Collection (28) – All PSA/DNA Authentic - worth at least $1500+
$250 1948 Bowman Football Signed Shortprints (9) - All PSA/DNA Authentic - worth at least $800+
$150 1948 Bowman Football #12 Charlie Conerly Signed Rookie SP - PSA/DNA Authentic (card PSA VG 3) worth at least $300
$250 1948 Bowman Football #71 Leslie Horvath Signed Rookie Card with Inscription - PSA/DNA Authentic worth at least $500
$325 1948 Leaf Football High Number Signed Group of (10) Different - All PSA/DNA Authentic worth at least $600
$200 1948 Leaf Football Signed Card Collection (11) – All PSA/DNA Authentic worth at least $400
$180 1949 Leaf Football #89 Bob Waterfield Signed Card - PSA/DNA Authentic worth at least $300
$275 1951 Topps Magic Football #10 Vic Janowicz Rookie Signed Card - PSA/DNA Authentic (Card PSA EX 5) worth at least $400
$375 1954 Blue Ribbon Tea CFL #7 Bud Grant Signed Rookie Card with Inscription - PSA/DNA Authentic worth at least $750
$475 1955 Topps All-American Football #69 Frank Sinkwich Signed Card - PSA/DNA Authentic worth at least $600
$450 1967 Philadelphia Gum Football #85 Dan Reeves Signed Card - PSA/DNA Authentic worth at least $750
$200 1975 Fleer Immortals Football #19 Ernie Nevers Signed Card - PSA/DNA Authentic worth at least $400
$110 1965 Topps Football Signed Pair with #46 Willie Brown & #117 John Huarte Rookies - Both PSA/DNA Authentic worth at least $250
$110 1966 Topps Football #120 Frank Buncom Signed Card - PSA/DNA Authentic worth at least $250
$160 1956 Topps Football #120 Billy Vessels Signed Rookie Card - PSA/DNA Authentic (card PSA EX 5, mk) worth at least $250
$140 1955 Bowman Football #8 Alan Ameche Signed Rookie Card - PSA/DNA Authentic worth at least $250
$150 1966 Philadelphia Gum Football #92 George Allen Signed Card - PSA/DNA Authentic worth at least $250
$100 1975 Fleer Immortals Football #60 Wayne Millner Signed Card - PSA/DNA Authentic worth at least $250
I talked w/ Bill Huggins today and was told that this has never happened in his 40 years and he gave me a condescending "apology" that I was due for some good luck after my bad luck w/ his auction.
So, do as you think best but please take my experience into consideration when deciding what auction house to use.
Greg M.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
Comments
This can happen with any auction house. I would have sent this stuff to PWCC and called it a day. Every auction is going to talk up their brand but the risk is always with the consignor.
Sorry to hear that although I've never thought of H&S as a football card dealer/AH
IMF
I would have cut up some small snippets of three ring binder paper and written names like Pete Rose, Gandhi, Kerry King, Taylor Spears, and John f Kennedy on them, then used scotch tape to cover up the real names of the players on those cards before trying to auction them. I ain't a young guy and don't think I can recognize any name in that bunch. Frank Sinkwich ??? Merely a two word review for that album...
Agreed.
I'd prefer listing the items for sale myself~more control that way with where you start the bidding, as some of the tougher issues may have thinner bidding pools to begin with.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I would never claim to be an expert on selling venues. However, I have to agree with some of what OddRodz said. Most of your items seem to be more niche collectibles and not necessarily has broad appeal to the masses. In the future for items such as these, like Grote said, put them up on Ebay as but it now with best offer. It may take several months, but eventually the right buyer for your items will come along at the right price.
Thanks for the feedback guys.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
always dip the toe vs diving head first
Sinkwich is one of the greats! Heisman award winner in 42. 1st pick of the 43 draft. Sinkwich and Charley Trippi played together in that 1942 season. Granted I know about him well because of my time at UGA. I do agree with the sentiment though, I don't know many of those players, so I would have never guessed that they would have been valued that high.
Honestly, I almost bid on a couple. But the auction house rake is just so ridiculous that I only bid with big houses if it's a must have item. I'm positive others feel the same way,
My Podcast - Now FEATURED on iTunes
I don't really get blowing up the auction house when it was your choice to utilize them and this was a pretty forseeable result.
It's too bad that I don't have the foresight that you do.
Greg M.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
One other thought. If you were expecting a certain amount, why not put up reserves on each listing? It may have not been worth it for you, but might have protected you a little more.
Sorry to hear about the poor results. It must have been a nightmare to watch the auction.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
And, as you can see here, it is the opinion of many who collect this type of item, that the auction format is quite ill suited for sale, given the low supply/low demand nature of signed RCs.
Beside that, I don't really see what the basis is for complaining about the AH. If they lied about previous results, that would be one thing. If you consign to open auctions, you get an immediate sale but have to live with the hammer price. That's the deal you agree to as consignor. Sucks, but we all make choices. The AH just did their job.
Sorry to hear about this. I'm sure h and s are also.
H&S said they had gotten record prices in the past. They didn't say, and surely can't say, that this consignment would hit a certain price.
If H&S have been getting huge prices for signed football in the past, it's appropriate to mention that. While it's a factor that can make someone want to choose one venue over another, it's clearly not a guarantee of a certain hammer price. Every item is distinct - signed RCs are their own animal, as I am sure a long-time collector like Greg knows - and auctions are what they are: a quick way to sell, but without control of the final price. If there had been misrepresentation, that is one thing, but it is certainly possible if not probable that some items have sold well in the past even if these did not.
This is a great lesson for everyone. I got hammered on a psa 8 Koufax rookie in heritage. The timing was just off and yes ultimately it is just a gamble by the consignor. But the lesson is don't ever let the AH spiel sway you. I got the same kind of "sorry about that" after I lost about 4K.
Your cards are worth only what people will pay for them....go to a bigger market to draw more people next time
Ebay has gotten me use to the idea of sniping, so much so that I like to bid at the last minute whenever I bid. For auction houses this usually means the extended time. Some of the auction houses send out email reminders when there's a day or left to go. I never got one for Huggins and Scott for this auction - not sure if they send them in general.
Anyhow there were ~5 items of yours I put initial bids on but didn't realize the auction was ending to add on more bids. I would have definitely been bidding more on the sinkwich, grant, and allen. Guess we both missed out. Sorry about that - not sure why there was no email notification.
I do think a few of your expectations were high. There's a handful of ameche's on ebay that are ~200 OBO. I bought a horvath at auction a while back and paid ~250 for it. Overall I agree with your assessment that the results were underwhelming vs what I would have expected on the ebay baseline.
I would have definitely gone with PWCC. I don't think there's any way that the more popular auction houses get more eyes on their items then eBay. I think big prices realized at those AHs are a result of getting some wealthy eyes on their items, but has nothing to do with the number of eyes. It seems like your collection would have benefited from having more collectors see the items.
This!
I frankly don't consign-- I sell on my own- but even if I did consign I certainly would not during what I call the "big daddy" of auction times- the week of and during the National. Too much heavyweight funds looking elsewhere. Even niche market guys set aside funds for other things during that period. I'd have preferred seeing a mid October thru mid November listing. Football in full swing, Xmas right around the corner ,and amateurs looking for gifts- tons of reasons I'd have steered clear of a National period listing.
Just my own thoughts
Jeff
Hard to read Greg.
Sorry to hear about this.
That was a great item!
This was an interesting athlete - he won the Heisman Trophy while in dental school - I'm sure the only one who will ever have that distinction.