1871 Penny, What Do You Think?

7Jaguars

I was a bit surprised by the grade on this one, and will say later on. What I can say is that what may look obvious is not. Anyway, comment if you like....

HoledandCreative

A beauty with a few defects visible in pictures.

ajaan

Scratches and environmental damage?

brg5658

Lovely detail on the Britannia side, and overall nice preservation of the coin. The strike-through on Britannia's right leg is interesting. A couple scratches between the 7 and 1 of "1871".

I don't care for the very dark spots on the Victoria bust side -- PCGS seems to be pretty lenient on copper spotting though. Also, I'm not sure what's going on directly in front and below of Vicky's chin in the field, and similarly behind her head and the ribbon. Patches of "work" or damage? It would be odd for this to be a planchet flaw split in two sections -- and if it were planchet roughness it would have be struck out by the highest part of the dies in the fields.

coinkat

Looks as if the area near Btitannia's knee could be the ressult of a strike through or could be pmd. The one indentation further up does look like a strike through more so than the other and lower area at the knee. There is clashing at the base of Victoria's neck... Interesting. The coin itself is decent even with the spots. I suspect that while a details grade is possible, seems that would be aliitle harsh. The discoloration and spots should impact the grade. Could grade as high as 63 could grade as low as 61. I see it as an MS coin. If I recall correctly, 1871 is a tough date and not an easy find in this state of preservation... Congrats

coinkat

So are you surprised because it graded higher than 63?

7Jaguars

OK, well the coin BB's for scratches! That is clearly wrong and I may take it back to them for review. The "scratches" in the lower right obverse field are actually from die polish or scratch and NOT on the coin. CK is quite right about the multiple areas on the coin (obviously much blown up in this picture) where there were flans issues of very mild abrasions and imperfect metal - I believe the flans had flakes of metal that were lost (two at the knee and thigh). There is luster through the "abrasions" in front of the chin and behind the head & does not appear as PMD. There is also some clashing from the reverse showing on the bottom half of the obverse through the truncation of the neck and in the field to right of lower bust. The toning spots may hold back the grading if redone but not IMO terminally limiting.
Actually there is very, very little wear and even places like Brit's hand holding spear and the bust truncation to lower right are portions just simply not struck up. The coin overall is actually IMO struck very well, and the lustre is actually even much better in hand and seems unlikely in the extreme that it was ever cleaned. I have seen many of these bunheads, and have most certainly seen inferior 64RBs. I honestly would have graded it there with 63 as a ceiling; certainly I would greatly like to see a similar quality 61!

brg5658

The two vertical lines between the 7 and 1 in the date are clearly scratches, not die polish. Die polish doesn't go over (i.e., cut through) raised surfaces on a struck coin. That scratch as seen in the images posted above cuts through the thin decorative border line.

That being said, I do NOT think that small little blemish should body-bag a coin, but that may be why they did it.

I would grade the coin MS64RB were it not for the very dark spots on the Victoria bust. My personal grading standards limit grades to MS63 for this type of somewhat unattractive spotty copper toning. So, I'd go MS63RB, final answer.

7Jaguars

Yes, good "spotting" (ha ha!) However, if you click the image and then blow up the blow up, look and see if you still think that Brandon - about those being scratches on coin vs. die....

brg5658

@7Jaguars said:
Yes, good "spotting" (ha ha!) However, if you click the image and then blow up the blow up, look and see if you still think that Brandon - about those being scratches on coin vs. die....

Already did that blow-up x 2. And, I still think they are scratches. The raised lines in the fields on the Victoria bust side all are classic die polish/die repair striations. The two prominent scratches between the 7 and 1 numerals in the date on the Britannia side are (in my opinion) scratches if the picture is accurate. Of course, this is all based on a picture...so, that's a limitation.

syl

The "rough" spots in front of, and in back of, Vicky's neck look to me like a "weak strike" from an undersize/thin planchet, where there was not enough metal to fill the fields... the metal flowed into the design recesses of the die and not enough left to completely fill the fields. You can see the same thing, to a lesser extent, on the Britania side .. . again in the near center of the coin and on either side of a heavy design. The "lines" off Vicky's left shoulder could be clash marks from part of the surf/lighthouse on the Reverse side.

7Jaguars

Yes, I think so as well. I've looked at quite a few other similar vintage Buns with similar roughness. If readers care to check other 1871s in close detail, this stands out well IMO. I have looked at the coin under natural light and also on 30x mag, and don't see flan scratches but rather die scratches twixt the numerals however. The "scratch" to the left crosses the border ring, but (also IMO), in the manner that a scratch would. Also, what enhances this is the light diffraction off the raised metal and in hand is not at all prominent.