So I Just Got My First Negative Feedback on Ebay..For a Card the Buyer Paid for < 24 Hours Ago...
HighGradeLegends
Posts: 1,693 ✭✭✭✭
Yesterday, I received an offer on a pop 1, PSA 10, 2012 Leaf Vince Lombardi Legacy Autographs Blue Ink #BS1 Bart Starr Autographed football card. I accepted the offer and sent the buyer an invoice. He paid ASAP (1:15pm eastern). I boxed the card up, printed a shipping label, and dropped it off inside of a drop box at my local PO on the way to dinner with family on the same day (5:15pm eastern).
Several hours (10:30 pm eastern) later the buyer sends me a message via ebay directing me not to ship the card, as he believes the Bart Starr autograph is altered and not his signature; he also claimed he was getting a PSA/DNA quick opinion to prove his assumption. I scratched my head as this is a Leaf guaranteed pack pulled modern auto card and the card itself was graded by PSA in the new lighthouse flip. I also saw his ID bidding on the same card in a BGS 9.5 slab for lesser price. So at that point I assumed he was working his way towards trying to get a refund for my card and keep the other card at less cost to him. I replied stating I disagreed with his claim as BS for the reasons I stated here and noted I saw his ID bidding on the similar card.
He replied ASAP with a screen capture of a PSA/DNA quick opinion judgement for a Hank Aaron pack pulled autographed card as "proof" my item was fake. This is confusing because I did not sell him a Hank Aaron autographed card and I replied asking how this was relevant to his claim. I also told him to send me screen captures of the final verdict of the PSA/DNA quick opinion for the Starr card in question, then I went to bed.
I woke up and check my ebay this morning (08:00am eastern) to see the buyer replied saying that PSA/DNA stated the Starr auto was passed as likely genuine (i never saw any proof he ever asked for QO, but that is the fastest turnaround I have ever seen). I typed up a long response, but using good judgement, I deleted it and simply replied, "Typed up a long response and have decided not to send it. enjoy your day and the card." Within 60 seconds of sending that msg I received negative feedback.
The buyer does not even have the card in his possession yet, it has been less than 24 hrs since he paid for the item, and I get a negative? I called ebay to request a feedback/defect removal. I tried several different approaches, such as liable, does not even have the card yet, never opened a case, statements made in feedback violated ebay TOS, etc. The outsourced customer service rep reviewed the statements I made in our 3-4 ebay msgs, agreed that I did nothing wrong, never threatened the buyer, never used abusive language, and then stated ebay had no grounds to remove the feedback, that the feedback statement is considered "the opinion" by the buyer, and that there is nothing else ebay can do to help me further.
I assume since he sent me a PSA/DNA QO screen capture of a Hank Aaron modern pack pulled topps auto card that this is not the first time he was done this to an ebay seller. I also saw the buyer had left other negs in the last 6 months for other sellers as well.
Very frustrating. I guess I am venting here and also trying to inform others in the event they see a similar situation in the future.
The card in question...
Comments
I looked at the negative the buyer left for you, states you were threatening and belligerent. If an eBay CS rep looked at that and has viewed all of your correspondences with this buyer and agrees you've done nothing wrong, how can they not remove it? Amazing that a buyer can leave a negative without receiving the item yet, I would try again to get an intelligent EBay CS rep on the phone, might have better odds of winning the Power Ball though
That stinks, hopefully you will be able to get the neg removed,keep going up the ladder until you get someone with authority.
Care to share the ebay ID so we can all block him?
Dang that stinks!..Please share the buyer's ID so we all can be on the lookout...I suspect he did exactly as you said, wanted the BGS one and it's buyers remorse. Your reply on the feedback is perfect and anyone with sense would see that the buyer was smoking a bit too much wacky weed and would disregard the negative...Some people are just plain jerks, I got a bad feedback once for a trashed packaged and even the buyer saying it wasn't my fault, but still leaving bad feedback.!
Work in progress - Unopened Racks/Cello/Wax with star power for Baseball, Football and Basketball
Collecting unopened 80's boxes and graded packs
I may be hoarding too much 80's junk wax but I like it!
you should do a package intercept w the post office and get your item back before that guy gets it...doesnt sound too trustworthy
Excellent idea.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Many years ago, I had a buyer purchase a $900 coin item at auction. A week went buy and he hadnt paid, I sent invoices twice and sent him a polite email asking if he had changed his mind and received no answer. This was back during the days when you could leave a buyer a negative. (My opinion is that the ONLY reason a buyer should get a neg is non paying, even in the case described above). So, I left a negative for the buyer for non payment after 21 days. Within an hour, I got a retaliatory neg stating that the item was counterfeit or something to that nature. Again, a situation as described above where buyer did not receive item yet. I appealed this to ebay and they removed the negative.
I think you need to keep at them until you get someone that speaks English as their first language and someone that can reason things out. It may take a few times, but eventually you should get it removed. Although even if you cant, be sure to reply to the neg and explain as best you can and leave him a negative positive explaining the situation on his feedback and realize that most people do not look at feedback anymore unless you have a pile of negs on them. I think everyone understands that there are enough idiot buyers out there to avoid for too long without getting a neg.
You might run into an issue as the buyer may then open a case with no delivery. But if you can get the card back, do a request to cancel the sale stating customer reason on the feedback, if he doesn't accept, eBay I think will close it for you and that feedback may go away since the sale is cancelled, can't remember 100%, but worth a try..
Work in progress - Unopened Racks/Cello/Wax with star power for Baseball, Football and Basketball
Collecting unopened 80's boxes and graded packs
I may be hoarding too much 80's junk wax but I like it!
i sold 2 nook colors and they went for .99 cents and the guy was threatening to leave me bad feedback because it didn't get in the time Ebay said it would get in. I never told ebay to put the time the item would get in !!! from now on all my auctions say that i am out of town and not shipping for 10 days. anyways i bit my lip and told him that i didnt have the proper box to ship and it took me a couple of days ,,,,, geez people....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_players_from_Panama
HGL - Please PM the buyer id so I can avoid future headaches. I can send you my blocked bidders list to cut and paste, each one was blocked for a db move like the one he pulled on you.
Ebay system of the buyer always being protected his bs. The buyer always wins with ebay period. I had a buyer crack a card case just to return it cause he was mad.
collecting 1977 topps baseball in psa 9 and psa 10
Buyer ID is pauryde_2.
Also, the Hank Aaron Quick Opinion he sent to me deals with a card modern pack pulled auto sold on ebay on or about 14 July 2017 with the title "2004 Hank Aaron Signature Edition." I do not have anymore info on that sale (i.e. who it was with, how it worked out, etc.).
Update...
-Though there is some good advice from the forum about intercepting the package, I have decided against this to avoid risking another problem. It already has signature required, so I am going to stick with it until the card arrives, see what the buyer's reaction/next move is, and then deal with anything that happens thereafter.
-I called ebay a second time and pleaded my case for feedback removal. I got a similar outsourced rep again (male this time), who told me the only way to have the feedback removed is for a case related to the item to be opened (i.e. SNAD or like issue), ebay rules in my favor, and then the feedback is auto removed by ebay. He stated it is not ebay's policy to remove manually feedback. So a slightly different story than the first rep I talked to, but no progress none the less. Words referenced like "policy" lead me to believe there is likely an exception out there, I just need to plead my case along these lines.
-Based on advice from forum members, I am going to continue to call customer service until I find a way to get the feedback removed. I also filed a complaint with ebay via their help page asking for the feedback to be removed, but I am not holding my breath.
-I have not replied to the buyer at all and I plan to continue this behavior unless a new problem arises. Less = more that this point I assess.
-I also warned the seller of the "like" BGS 9.5 card ebay card he bid on and later won via ebay msging. This seller did not respond to me, but his auction says his card is from Japan, so time differences and language barrier may apply here.
1 neg means nothing. Don't compound the problem by expending more time or mental energy on this. Just relist after return and move on.
I disagree that one negative means nothing...get it removed for sure. eBay concierge wouldn't question this false negative..it's ridiculous and the buyer should be suspended.
1 negative won't be an issue. I look at the buyers overall sales since I'm a seller too. Block the buyer and move on...I do it all the time. It stinks, but that is the way the system works...Hopefully the buyer doesn't come back for a return, because this is where you might get shafted. If the buyer states that the item is bogus on SNAD, he could literally bust the case and trash the card, send it back to you (eBay uses standard USPS Priority with only $50 coverage) and there's not much you could do, you could say the card came back damaged, but eBay would state the card wasn't legit per the buyer (total crock of Schlitz!)...If he does a SNAD, send a label yourself via the PO with insurance of the value of the listing, that way hopefully the PO will cover in case the lovely piece of Schlitz decides to try something.
Work in progress - Unopened Racks/Cello/Wax with star power for Baseball, Football and Basketball
Collecting unopened 80's boxes and graded packs
I may be hoarding too much 80's junk wax but I like it!
I didn't think a buyer can leave a neg until a full 7 days after auction closed.
The negative is probably for the customer service.
Update: the situation is now resolved. The feedback has been revised. See the summary below.
Following djr's recommendation, I did execute a "contact info request" at 9pm last evening. You must understand this sends an email to the buyer letting him know I asked ebay for his full POC info and ebay sends me their full info...name, address, phone #, email, etc....as well as sending my info to the buyer...double edged sword if you have a crazy who is going to blow up your phone. From this info, I found his last name was spelled backwards registered with ebay, but spelled correctly on the shipping address I mailed the card to. Using the links provided by djr, I called ebay to let them know the buyer had fraudulent contact info. The customer service rep agreed with my claim, but said this did not mean the buyer's account would be automatically suspended. I interpreted this would mean ebay would contact the buyer and give them one chance to change their info. Anyway, this did buy me a connection with a "feedback specialist" to attempt to revise my feedback as I used the "fruit from the poisoned tree" defense. This next person was another outsourced customer service rep. This rep put me on hold for about 20 minutes to study the ebay communication and the feedback. She returned to the phone and stated, "I empathize with your request to remove the negative feedback. However, I find the statements made by the buyer are of his/her opinion and do not violate any ebay terms of service. I suggest you contact the buyer and ask him/her to revise the feedback for you." I asked to speak to a supervisor and was told I would have to wait 30-60 minutes. At that point I gave up and hung up the phone. Fast forward 16 hours. The buyer received the card, signed for it with USPS, and a few hours later contacted me via ebay to say the card arrived safely, packed well, timely, and it was better than he expected. The buyer did not mention the POC info issue, so I am not sure if ebay contacted him or if he just complied and moved on without thinking much about it. Anyway, I kindly responded, "I am glad the card arrived quickly, safely, and to your standards. I am not happy about the negative feedback and respectfully request you revise it to positive now that you have the card and it is to your liking." He responded, "I agree to that." I sent a feedback revision request via ebay and within 5 minutes the negative was revised to positive and removed. So a long story and a lot of effort expended to achieve the desired result.
In the end, I am happy with the final result, but not happy with the overall "drama" of the situation and general lack of support from ebay.
Lessons Learned:
-djr's suggestions and recommendations are legit. Do not discount them, but have strategy for their use before taking action. I just did it to "see what would happen." On second thought, I should have developed a strategy to maximize it's leverage.
-If your items are legit and high quality, they will speak for themselves and may calm down a crazy buyer once they arrive. It may be better to wait for an item to arrive, assuming you have protected yourself with tracking and signature confirmation, before trying to contact the buyer during a dispute...case by case basis and gut feeling.
-I was respectful through all my communication, but this did not help me with ebay. It may have helped me getting the buyer to remove the feedback int he end.
-I want to invent a rival sports card only marketplace to ebay, but only for graded cards...that puts both sides on a equal playing field, has low fees, sales info that lasts forever to gauge market pricing better, and corrects all the wrongs of ebay that we all generally hate...whoever wants in let me know. I have the business know-how, but I am not a coder...lol.