How do you ship very valuable coins?
lkeigwin
Posts: 16,893 ✭✭✭✭✭
If you have a package that contains coins in excess of $50k how do you ship it?
Recently, when I return-shipped some $90k boxes, the PO clerk told me registered mail insurance is limited to $50k. She showed me the fine print on the registered mail form. I said "I think maybe that's an old form. I'm simply returning packages that were mailed to me the same way." She frowned and asked a co-worker who said "whatever the computer let's you enter."
She tried $90k and it worked so we let it go.
Later I poked around and learned that the PO will allow you to declare registered mail values higher than $50k (all the way up to $15,000,000, in fact) but insurance is always capped at $50k.
If you declare your package's value as $90k you are charged more for a "handling fee", I guess. Here are examples of the registered mail fee and each is only insured for $50,000, not a penny more:
PKG VALUE RM Fee (not incl. shipping service, like First Class or Priority Mail, etc.)
$50,000 $ 92.05
$90,000 $154.05
$500,000 $789.55
$15,000,000 $23,264.55
There are 3rd party insurers that can insure to much higher levels and at better rates. E.g., ShipAndInsure.com. They charge 11 cents per $100 in value with registered mail. So the insurance for a $90k package would be $99 plus the PO's RM fee of $11.70. (You must be an ANA member and they require an annual North American Collectibles Assn membership fee of $135 or so.)
Sorry this question isn't pertinent to most collectors. But if it is to you, how do you deal with it?
And what are your thought on the PO policy for rates on pricey packages?
Lance.
Comments
I would use Ship and Insure on top of Registered Mail with a declared value of $0. USPS policy makes little sense. Since its liability is not increased because of the insurance cap, the extra handling fee is ridiculous IMHO.
I would overnight and require a signature. Private insurance does the rest. I ship like this a bunch lately.
I don't play in that space, but if it were me, I would have shipped two packages at $45K each using USPS Registered.
Wow. I had co clue that registered mail insurance capped out at 50k. All the coin's I own put together don't equal that. I have heard good things about ship and insure.
SHipAndInsure for me. I sometimes use overnight service and bite the bullet with higher rates to get the package there faster. (Which is double registered mail rate, but I don't have to wait 2-3 weeks.) They have a 75K max insurance and I try and ship under this limit. They will override the limits if you ask them to.
I hate the membership nonsense, but they will not budge on that.
I personally delivered 400K once to a guy in Florida.
Flew down in the AM, went to his bank where he wired me the $$, flew back that night.
Most of the time, 3rd party insurance is easier.
agree, shipandinsure.com
As soon as you buy insurance from the PO - the value goes on the label. Opens it up for theft. And it is more expensive than ship and insure
Best, SH
For me, Im hardly comfortable mailing one or two coins at a time. Would be tough to stomach the loss of anything worth over a thousand and even deal with the hassle and waiting for insurance to kick in. Of coarse, shipping a coin must happen and one has to trust the process and just do it, but the higher the value the worse the nail bitting gets.
With that said, I'd really have trouble loading a box full of an entire collection and shipping it off. I'm just not gonna expose it to that risk. The consequence is just too high for me. Look, I know folks do it, and maybe it's just me, but I don't trust insurance to come through on a box of collectible coins.
I spoke with one dealer at a show about cac and too bad they don't set up at shows for a sticker walk through service, said I wasn't gonna mail all my money to them at once , he assured me it's no problem, but I'm not gonna do it for that reason alone. Too much risk for reward.
Now flying to a show and buying coins in person and coming home with them in my pocket, that's for me!
The extra handling fee is for added security which may include following the delivery in an unmarked vehicle if necessary. If the extra fee is not paid and the delivery is lost, the USPS will deny your entire claim on the basis that had they known the true value they would have handled it differently.
If you're dealing with a potential buyer (such as an auction house) you can often just use their insurance for whatever amount it might add up to.
I strictly adhere to the guidelines of my private dealer's insurance and if I have any questions whatsoever I email the insurance company prior to the shipment with my question and receive an answer back in writing.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Or if you're accepting coins for photo work like the OP, you return them by the same means as you received them unless the owner specifies to the contrary since he is paying the bill, the ignorance of the USPS window clerk nothwithstanding.
I'm seeing more and more evidence supporting buying only cheap coins.
I agree...I send all my coins Express Mail Signature Required...that's it...no insurance...In God We Trust...
For return shipment of an item sent on approval, where title was never transferred, would the dealer's insurance cover it?
Probably, but best to check with the dealer.
For really large amounts I would do totally screened courier that I personally know. And you wonder on large value insured items how the insurance company could play hardball on payouts take a long time and up your rates or drop coverage.
ship and insure focuses on collectables, so used to very large values and are very likely to not play hardball or take a long time to reimburse. As long as your follow their requirements, there should be no issues, although I have never had to file a claim.
Best, SH
ShipAndInsure's rate table shows a $75K limit for FedEx. If you're routinely shipping high value, you should have coverage to that amount on your insurance policy. Not only are you shipping it, but you also are liable for it from the time you pick it up until the time it enters the tracking system on the way back.
Some dealers will have you return ship on their account and have coverage with their own insurance.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Deny what claim? The claim lies with the private insurance.
I agree with wildidea. On amounts like this........I would drive the coins there.
You'll just have to send out 2 separate USPS Registered packages if you insist on using the USPS. I have had 3 lost/stolen registered packages. The USPS was very quick in sending me a check for the full insured amount.
Brinks
That is the explanation given to me by the gent who was in charge of registered mail at my local PO branch for many years. Perhaps you should go down to YOUR PO and ask the Postmaster or other individual for an explanation. While registered is secure, it is not invulnerable. A monster box of 1 ounce gold eagles would likely be treated differently than a single 1 ounce coin. The Hope Diamond was once transported by registered mail. Do you suppose it got special attention?
If your claim is with the USPS, duh.
Their indemnity limit is $50K regardless of value beyond that.
Let's say you ship something worth $125K, but only declare a value of $50K and pay insurance for $50K. Let's say it goes missing. If you put in a claim and the USPS finds out that the real value was $125K and you failed to declare and pay the fee for the extra value of $75K, they will deny the entire claim and you will get paid zilch.
You missed the entire point. I do not know whether that is a basis for denying the claim or not, but it would be a non-issue in the scenario outlined in my post because there would be no USPS claim.
P.S. Value and declared values are also subjective especially in this market.
Since you mentioned the "handling" fee I was addressing the purpose of the fee and possible consequence/s of not paying it. Obviously if you use non-USPS insurance you would have no claim with the USPS.
Reading comprehension..........duh!
Private insurance with express mail and signature required.
PCGS Registries
Box of 20
SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
U.S. postal insured
Use whoever will deliver it the fastest and most securest for the leastest.
Uncle Guido, via UBER.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
I recall Adrian Crane sending me a coin that was close to 40K (on approval) and asked him if he not worry about sending a 40K coin when 20K was limit (at the time). His reply was if it was going to get there for 20K it will get there at 40K. Didn't know what that meant and he may have had private Insurance of which I knew nothing about at the time.
I may have been reckless in that being cheap I've sent high value packages to CAC and PCGS and only insured for half value. 170k insured for 100K
I've had called the main PO in region and was told, yes you must declare for full value even though insurance caps out at 50K and would denied ANY CLAIM! if full value was not declared.
If I lost a package and since value is variable I would have used the "wholesale value" which is 50%. At least PCGS would use owners declared value when returning coins so it was with the outgoing that I was taking the biggest chances.
When I finally checked in to private insurance, I had already mailed 90% so going forward my shipping fees won't justify paying a membership fee of close to $200 to Ship n Insure.
I'm just curious how a claim on a coin like this uber rarity would have played out: https://coins.ha.com/itm/liberty-double-eagles/1870-cc-20-au58-ngc/a/1166-3000.s
And no cross with PCGS? Strange.
THIS!
From what I understand registered mail is the safest way to ship hands down.
Hop on the bus, Gus. I'd personally deliver the coin, well worth a couple of hundred in airfare to make sure it gets to where it needs to and who it needs to.
v-e-r-y carefully
BHNC #203
I've never had a package lost through USPS (knock on wood), but on the big coins, I like the peace of mind of registered mail.
shipandinsure.com. Their best rates are for USPS Registered Mail, but that is the slowest. I prefer overnight delivery so that I only have to worry for less than 24 h9ours, not 4-7 days with Registered.
OINK
Except you need to do a certain amount of shipping in order to make the cost of S and I worthwhile. If the bulk of your mailing is returning items to customers, it may not be worth the hassle to jump thru their hoops. Just return them the same way the customer sent them.
Unless the criminals employed by the TSA decide to search your bag and take it for themselves...
Hugh Woods also provides insurance coverage on some of their policies for shipping coins too. In my experience, they have the best rates around and their terms are very easy to be in compliance with.