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1986 Fleer Basketball

Looks like interest continues to wane on the Jordan RC in high grade. The last PSA 10 sold for $17,700. There is a wax box from Steel City, BBCE wrapped that has 10 hours left and hasn't sold for $46k. A complete box with all packs PSA graded hasn't sold for $57k. PWCC has a BBCE box up for auction with the current bid at $20k+. Will this box go for under$40k?

Comments

  • thunderdanthunderdan Posts: 3,036 ✭✭✭
    edited July 11, 2017 7:29PM

    All the ones you mention are Frankenstein boxes which go for far less. The one at goldin is a full original box with a Jordan showing in one of the packs already at 56k + BP with three weeks to go

    image


  • Dand522612Dand522612 Posts: 417 ✭✭✭

    Try to find anything centered in PSA 9 on EBAY. Several players are impossible. PSA 10 numbers were out of control and could only go down. Market will ebb and flow forever as it is a blue chip.

  • ElvisPElvisP Posts: 1,052 ✭✭✭

    What are Frankenstein boxes? Why is the one on Goldin an original, complete box? I don't see anything claiming this. I don't see how you could say for sure as they did not come sealed, did they? I could see a BBCE FASC bringing a premium. You say a Jordan on top increase the value but wouldn't that card have gum damage? The box on eBay that are graded has 4 Jordan stickers showing.

  • SpinFadeSplash23SpinFadeSplash23 Posts: 909 ✭✭✭
    edited July 11, 2017 8:55PM

    What are Frankenstein boxes?
    Frankenstein boxes are, in the eyes of BBCE, legit singles packs that are piecemealed together to create a 36 pack box. The box is not in the original form as it came from the factory. I know because I owned one of these and eventually sold it for $39,600 to purchase a "factory" box one day. Both the PWCC and Steel City boxes are the less desirable Frankenstein boxes, so that is not a proper gauge of the market IMO.

    Why is the one on Goldin an original, complete box?
    Because in the opinion of BBCE, the wrapper colors, alignment, sticker placement and other details of the packs "match" and portray a complete, factory issued box. You are relying on their professional expertise to make this determination.

    I don't see anything claiming this. I don't see how you could say for sure as they did not come sealed, did they?
    Yes, it is pretty clear in both auctions that one is different than the other. The Goldin will likely sell for $70k+ (the Jordan on top is a attraction) and the Ebay Frankenstein will be lucky to fetch $36,000. Read the descriptions.

    I could see a BBCE FASC bringing a premium.
    A 1986 Fleer Basketball Box BBCE FASC does not exist on the market. If one did, it would fetch an amazing price. I would bid $85,000 and that probably wouldn't be enough to get it. This is a holy grail item.

    You say a Jordan on top increase the value but wouldn't that card have gum damage?
    It may, but the pack itself is rare and desirable to Jordan collectors and unopened pack collectors.

    Joe

    IG: goatcollectibles23

    The biggest lesson I've learned in this hobby, and in life, is that if you have a strong conviction, you owe it to yourself to see it through. Don't sell yourself, or your investments, short. Unless the facts change. Then sell it all.
  • mtcardsmtcards Posts: 3,342 ✭✭✭

    Slightly on/off topic, but there is a PSA graded pack from 1987 with Jordan showing currently on ebay. Seller is asking $1500, which I think is high, but what is the "estimated" value of this item?

    IT IS ALWAYS CHEAPER TO NOT SELL ON EBAY
  • thunderdanthunderdan Posts: 3,036 ✭✭✭

    The non Frankenstein boxes are designated as a "Wax Box" on the bottom. The letter they come with from Steve @ BBCE call out that his opinion is it's a full wax box. This one is a box I purchased recently which came with a signed letter from steve (an example of the text is below). The "36 Pack Box" designation on the bottom is a Frankenstein box.

    image


  • ... and the only way to verify what's in that box is to rip the seal that BBCE put around the box.... and then it loses its "value" because its no longer a "sealed, verified box". People are STILL falling for this? Unreal.

    I actively collect Kirby Puckett. I have collections of Michael Jordan, Emmitt Smith, Roberto Clemente, Dwight Gooden, Tom Seaver, Errict Rhett and Evan Longoria.

  • It has been amazing watching BBCE evolve and become the go-to authority for unopened. I'm glad the unopened graded packs debacle from a member a few years back didn't have long term affects on Steve's enterprise.

  • SpinFadeSplash23SpinFadeSplash23 Posts: 909 ✭✭✭

    @mtcards said:
    Slightly on/off topic, but there is a PSA graded pack from 1987 with Jordan showing currently on ebay. Seller is asking $1500, which I think is high, but what is the "estimated" value of this item?

    IMO, it being graded a PSA 6 makes it less desirable. Based on the some market multipliers I've seen for other Jordan packs and taking into the account the PSA 6 grade, I'd value this pack at $800.

    Joe

    IG: goatcollectibles23

    The biggest lesson I've learned in this hobby, and in life, is that if you have a strong conviction, you owe it to yourself to see it through. Don't sell yourself, or your investments, short. Unless the facts change. Then sell it all.
  • thunderdanthunderdan Posts: 3,036 ✭✭✭

    @Jimmy_Commonpants said:
    ... and the only way to verify what's in that box is to rip the seal that BBCE put around the box.... and then it loses its "value" because its no longer a "sealed, verified box". People are STILL falling for this? Unreal.

    Do I trust the judgement and word of Steve that the packs inside are what he says they are? The answer is yes--trust built up over many years, experiences, and transactions.

    I also have no doubt that Steve would have zero issue with me bringing this box to Shererville, busting it open and examining the packs together and then having him put the BBCE seal again on the box for no charge.

    Enough people, some on this board, have bought this exact type of box, busted it open, and the packs are exactly as stated by Steve in the certification letter. If it were not so, word would get around so fast that Steve's high end market would dry up almost immediately.

    image


  • travis ttravis t Posts: 1,185 ✭✭✭

    Sincerely believe in Steve. It wouldn't be worth the reputation of a high ranking enterprise to f up on such a high value item. As a student of Mastro's old habits, I could assure you that he, like most of us, would not subject himself to such negative legal scrutiny over a box of cards.

  • CakesCakes Posts: 3,450 ✭✭✭✭✭

    omg sorry to derail but no matter how many times I have seen the Lasorda clip I still can't get enough. That Philly Fanatic has to be the best mascot of all time!

    Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.

    Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
  • secretstashsecretstash Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭✭

    @SirLurksALot said:
    It has been amazing watching BBCE evolve and become the go-to authority for unopened. I'm glad the unopened graded packs debacle from a member a few years back didn't have long term affects on Steve's enterprise.

    Can you provide a link to the thread about this? What happened here exactly if you don't mind sharing the story. Thanks.

  • HighGradeLegendsHighGradeLegends Posts: 1,693 ✭✭✭✭

    @Dand522612 said:
    Try to find anything centered in PSA 9 on EBAY. Several players are impossible. PSA 10 numbers were out of control and could only go down. Market will ebb and flow forever as it is a blue chip.

    What he said.

  • ElvisPElvisP Posts: 1,052 ✭✭✭

    Thanks for the education. How are the other HOF rookies holding up? Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, Clyde Drexler, Hakeem Olajuwon etc? I know the Malone in PSA 10 was well over 1k at one time but last time I looked it was in the $800 range or less.

  • AcesCrackedAcesCracked Posts: 189 ✭✭

    Why is Fleer or someone letting them post 86 Jordan "replicas" on Ebay without making the company put the words "reprint on every one????? You can get 50 86 fleer rookie Jordans for 49.00.
    You know someone will scam them with PSA holders.......... Only in America

  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 8,100 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @AcesCracked said:
    Why is Fleer or someone letting them post 86 Jordan "replicas" on Ebay without making the company put the words "reprint on every one????? You can get 50 86 fleer rookie Jordans for 49.00.
    You know someone will scam them with PSA holders.......... Only in America

    There is a seller that i follow who is constantly slipping fake copies of MJ's 86 fleer rc & sticker as well as a fakes of his 87 fleer 2nd year card into 20-30 card lots full of real MJ cards. He puts enough real Jordan cards around the fakes to make the lot look desirable and he is constantly getting upwards of $500-800 from gullible buyers. Sometimes he'll slip in some Star reprints too. He likes to play the "i bought a storage locker full of sports cards and i know nothing about selling them" gimmick.
    How he hasn't been shutdown already is beyond me. Anyone whose spent a little time going thru his history can figure out what he's been doing for months. Sure there are the occasional storage locker that might have some cards in it but there's no way you'll find one full of pristine looking ungraded 86 Fleer rcs where you can sell about 4-5 of them a week. Only on ebay.

  • @ElvisP said:
    Thanks for the education. How are the other HOF rookies holding up? Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, Clyde Drexler, Hakeem Olajuwon etc? I know the Malone in PSA 10 was well over 1k at one time but last time I looked it was in the $800 range or less.

    Any non-graded cards other than Jordan can be bought for less than Beckett values. I've recently compiled a second set, mostly from non-ebay internet sources, NM condition all for reasonable prices. $60 for the Barkley was the most I paid, with the Malone, Ewing, Hakeem, Drexler, etc, being $25-$40 each.

    I actively collect Kirby Puckett. I have collections of Michael Jordan, Emmitt Smith, Roberto Clemente, Dwight Gooden, Tom Seaver, Errict Rhett and Evan Longoria.

  • SpinFadeSplash23SpinFadeSplash23 Posts: 909 ✭✭✭

    The PWCC Frankenstein box ended almost exactly where I guessed, about $33k. The Goldin Auctions one, from the factory and with an MJ RC on top of one of the packs, is at $56k before BP. Strong price. I picked up some 1986 Fleer PSA 10s tonight - Mullin, Ewing and Malone, for what I consider fair prices. Almost went for the Jordan at $17.3k, but another is ending in 8 days, so we'll see. Still hoping the 96-97 Jordan Game Used Jersey on Goldin finds its way into my collection.

    Joe

    IG: goatcollectibles23

    The biggest lesson I've learned in this hobby, and in life, is that if you have a strong conviction, you owe it to yourself to see it through. Don't sell yourself, or your investments, short. Unless the facts change. Then sell it all.
  • SpinFadeSplash23SpinFadeSplash23 Posts: 909 ✭✭✭

    Update: I bid on nearly every single PSA 10 Fleer that ended tonight and lost them all. Jordan ended at $21k+.

    Joe

    IG: goatcollectibles23

    The biggest lesson I've learned in this hobby, and in life, is that if you have a strong conviction, you owe it to yourself to see it through. Don't sell yourself, or your investments, short. Unless the facts change. Then sell it all.
  • HighGradeLegendsHighGradeLegends Posts: 1,693 ✭✭✭✭

    I wonder if the winners will pay

  • SpinFadeSplash23SpinFadeSplash23 Posts: 909 ✭✭✭

    I doubt it. All cards that don't sell for record lows are shilled. We know this.

    Joe

    IG: goatcollectibles23

    The biggest lesson I've learned in this hobby, and in life, is that if you have a strong conviction, you owe it to yourself to see it through. Don't sell yourself, or your investments, short. Unless the facts change. Then sell it all.
  • HighGradeLegendsHighGradeLegends Posts: 1,693 ✭✭✭✭

    "All" is a bit over the top as a fact

  • SpinFadeSplash23SpinFadeSplash23 Posts: 909 ✭✭✭

    Faith is a fact.

    Joe

    IG: goatcollectibles23

    The biggest lesson I've learned in this hobby, and in life, is that if you have a strong conviction, you owe it to yourself to see it through. Don't sell yourself, or your investments, short. Unless the facts change. Then sell it all.
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