Sandy Koufax and Clayton Kershaw
Tomi
Posts: 643 ✭✭✭
Most of us have only seen footage of Koufax pitching and yes he was just filthy, but for those here who have seen both pitch, where do you put these 2 against each other, Koufax or Kershaw ? Koufax was 30 when he retired and Kershaw right now is at 29. Obviously Kershaw will play for many more years (I hope) so the all time numbers will be in his favor, but if both careers ended at 30 would you have them pretty even or is one ahead by a good margin. I like the comparison since they are pretty similar and are both Dodgers.
0
Comments
Saw Koufax a few times. What's a Kershaw?
I think Kershaw is well on his way to putting up better numbers than Koufax if he stays healthy and he is about as dominant, too, at least right now. The only glaring omission from Kershaw's resume is postseason success and a World Series championship.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
For about a 5 year period Koufax was the best ever, period. Kershaw is awesome
It's amazing the 5 year stretch they both had
KOUFAX ERA
1962 2.54 1st in NL
1963 1.88 1st in NL
1964 1.74 1st in NL
1965 2.04 1st in NL
1966 1.73 1st in NL
KERSHAW ERA
2011 2.28 1st in NL
2012 2.53 1st in NL
2013 1.83 1st in NL
2014 1.77 1st in NL
2015 2.13 3rd in NL
HOWEVER, Koufax, in the Post Season, although his record was only 4-3, pitched 57 innings and had an ERA of 0.95.
Kershaw is 4-7 and has a 4.55 ERA in the Post Season.
Doug
Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
The only glaring thing I see here is that outside of the 5 year stretch, Koufax didn't do much else. His 1961 season was pretty good to so I would say he had a 6 year run that was great. Outside of that, he had a handful of mediocre to average seasons. Meanwhile Kershaw is in his 9th straight season with an ERA under 3. You only listed his 2011-2015, but his 2009 and 2010 were both pretty good seasons, though the win loss record doesn't show it. An ERA under 3 in 30 plus starts is good no matter how many wins he got. Also in 2016 he was the most dominant pitcher in the league when he played, only starting 21 games, and still managed to come in 5th in Cy Young voting with a 1.69 ERA. Then this season he is well on his way to another great season leading the league in innings, wins, and ERA.
I guess what I am saying is that I would take Kershaw and his 8.5 dominant seasons compared to Koufax and his 6. They are actually both pretty close at this point in Kershaw's career numbers and awards wise. Koufax does have the postseason numbers, but I just think Kershaw has had the better, longer run up to this point.
PSA HOF Baseball Postwar Rookies Set Registry- (Currently 80.51% Complete)
PSA Pro Football HOF Rookie Players Set Registry- (Currently 19.80% Complete)
PSA Basketball HOF Players Rookies Set Registry- (Currently 6.02% Complete)
Kershaw wins this comparison - easily.
Among all starters in the live ball era, Kershaw is #1 in career ERA. And he's 0.39 ahead of the next guy.
One guy has led the majors in ERA four straight seasons in major league history - Kershaw.
Kershaw's career road ERA would be #2 all-time among starters in the live ball era.
Kershaw has been in the majors for 10 seasons. He's had exactly one season that wasn't at least excellent (his rookie year). Koufax had multiple poor years.
Sandy's best 5-year run, his ERA was 1.95. During Kershaw's best 5-year stretch, his ERA was 1.91.
Koufax achieved his remarkable run during a modern day dead ball era. Kershaw has pitched in a much more lively offensive era.
This will upset a lot of people but Koufax was the pitcher equivalent of Jim Rice at Fenway, Chuck Klein in Philly, or Larry Walker at Corrs. Koufax at Dodger Stadium - 1.37 ERA. Everywhere else - 3.38 ERA. Fact is, if he'd played anywhere else other than Dodger Stadium in the 1960s, he'd be remembered entirely differently.
Kershaw has a higher K/9 (9.8 vs 9.3) and lower WHIP (1.002 vs 1.106) for his career than Koufax. Kershaw's WHIP is 4th among all starters in the live ball era.
Where Koufax does have a big advantage over Kershaw is that his 5-year run included a lot more innings than what Kershaw has done in any of his big seasons.
Kershaw is clearly the better regular season pitcher. Koufax had a great 5-6 year run but also had as many average years.
Koufax's post season record is better and that counts.
I have to agree that unless Kershaw does better in the postseason and wins a WS he will not be considered an all time great.
I would like to point out that he did pitch well last year in the playoffs versus the Nationals. He also came in to close out a crucial game after just one days rest.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
I think part of what we're seeing in comparing their postseasons is simply that Kershaw has had more opportunities to fail. Koufax pitched 8 total games in the postseason. Kershaw has had 18. Among those 18, yes, he's had some clunkers, but he's also had plenty of excellent starts (5 starts of 6+ with 0/1 ER) and other good ones. I think if you saw Koufax playing 3 rounds of games in a postseason, you'd see some clunkers in his work as well.
Unquestionably, however, at this point Koufax is far ahead in terms of postseason work.