Are Strong Modern Coin Prices Finally Impacting

wondercoin

the Classics?

I just bid more than $25,000 for a customer for an 1873 Two Cent Piece in PCGS-PR66RD in the Heritage sale (which I was told was a record price for a proof two cent piece) AND STILL GOT OUTBID!!!!!

Are the strong modern coin prices finally impacting the previously overlooked classic series coins (i.e. 2 cent pieces, 3 cents, half dimes and the like)? Wondercoin

TWQG

SHhhh. Don't let the cat out of the bag yet.


Sean

dbldie55

No. But the market is getting stronger for rarer pieces. Look at the thread about the prices on the Liberty Nickels in Superiors sales earlier this week. I know my local dealer (wondercoin knows him) will not even bid in most of the auctions as the prices are going way north, well above what he can re-sell them for.

Now if the prices on common classic coins are going up in these auctions, then this may have something to do with the prices of moderns (but more likely just an indicator of a strong overall market)

TomB

I hope not, it's already difficult enough to find and buy these coins when they have great eye appeal. It doesn't need to get any harder.

dbldie55

As a follow up: Jack Lee bid $462,000 on a raw morgan dollar last year. Do you think the modern coin market had any relevance on this price realized? (you know my answer as I also know the underbidder quite well)

Mintage of 1873 Two Cent Piece ~500, mintage of modern proof coins ~2,000,000+. Would you expect a strong transition from the latter to the former?

wondercoin

"previously overlooked classic series coins (i.e. 2 cent pieces, 3 cents, half dimes and the like)"

dbldie55: I was referring to overlooked series - not Morgans of course. Wondercoin.

dbldie55

Check my edit. Do you think that people who only collect rare high grade coins are going to transition into high grade rare coins? (some may, but not many, my opinion)

I think the price on the 1873 2 cent piece is an indicator of the strong market for "rare" coins. Dealers cannot get "rare" coins into their inventory. Talk to any dealer of these(rare coins), and there is nothing out there. The only way to bring them out is higher prices. As with most of these dealers, most feel that this is an entirely different market than those that want highest graded common stuff.

wondercoin

So, Ijust tried my luck at a Seated Dime. 1884 in PCGS-MS68. Bid over $16,000 AND STILL JUST GOT OUTBID. At least I am the underbidder on some of these coins, for whatever that's worth (maybe a free catalog from Heritage) Wondercoin.

dbldie55

Hope you get one (catalog), Dale always gives me his. It does seem the prices on the non-traditional series are going way up though. Not sure what that means (as long as people stay away from the CN 5 cent pieces from 83-12)

cladking

There are three ways in which modern coin prices will have impacted classic
coins. First is the rising tide floating all the boats. As the moderns attract
increasing amounts of attention it's only natural that the classics get more
exposure to more people, and these coins can sell themselves. Any effect
to date is probably due to this.

The most obvious way, of course, is that the collectors of the moderns are
the next generation of coin collectors, and will someday own almost all the
classics. They are probably still a relatively small part of the classic markets.

Finally there is the "wealth effect". As modern collectors and dealers make
more and more money in moderns some of it will naturally flow into the classics.
This could be becoming a significant force.

There are large numbers of returning collectors. These are people who hunted
the elusive rarities in circulation back in the 60's. They are becoming pretty
sophisticated pretty quickly since they had years of collecting before they gave
it up. They also have plenty of money now. This is where most of the new de-
mand for classics is coming from now.

IrishMike

I read an interesting AP article in the paper this morning. Basically the point was that as baby boomers are aging and getting out of the rat race at work, they are spending more time and more money on hobbies. This might have some affect on pricing. Did you notice you had your question reversed, shouldn't it read, are classic prices driving up modern coin prices?

CarlWohlforth

I lost out on a coin at the Heritage auction. And it was hard for me to bid retail in the first place!

However there was a NGC Barber dime in PF 67 Cam that didn't sell. That surprised me.

Typetone

Can someone post a link to Dbldie55's reference to a thread on Lib 5c in the Superior sale? Couldn't find it.

Thank you

Greg

roadrunner

Yes, there is strong competition for even the smaller denominations like 3 cent silvers and half dimes. It wasn't more than 6 months ago that these were tough sells. Nice ones are finally selling. When the smaller and less popular coins start moving, look out. The strength of the recent auctions support this. The sheets are way behind the actual market in many areas. You almost have to just say what do I think this should be worth...and then pay it. Type coins (in the same quality as they were in 1989) can still be purchased for one third or less of their former highs. Not a bad deal. But don't make the mistake of comparing today's typical MS65 with the one from 1989.....no comparison at all. The scarcity of the more popular larger type coins is forcing dealers to stock the little coins too. Better dates from the seated and Barber series are showing up in dealer's stock where just a few months ago many wouldn't have touched them for fear of being stuck with a slow moving item.

roadrunner

tradedollarnut

Legend purchased the two cent piece and since they don't deal in moderns, I'd have to say that the price realized has nothing to do with the high prices of modern coins. It has more to do with the dearth of quality product on the market. When a superb coin comes along, throw the sheets out the window. Legend also purchased the 1884 dime for strong money and was the underbidder on the Roanoke that went for huge dollars. A combination of monster toning and monster quality means monster prices!

Ronyahski

Uhh...no! Strong modern prices have nothing to do with classic price movements. The biggest price movements in classics are at the high grades. If there is any correlation, it might have to do with attention paid to grade rarity as a result of the population reports and registry, increasing interest, thus increasing demand. Though classic prices are moving up because of higher demand, modern prices are strong because of current supply.

keets

tradedollars post pretty much sums it up. two things never go out of style and are always easy to sell-----truly rare coins and truly eye appealing coins. most of the modern coins that sell for big dollars are grade rare.

littlewicher

I tend to concur.

truthteller

The moderns are getting smart and bailing out. The money is now going into classics, a safe haven for the sophisticated.

TRTH

cladking

That's a thought. Maybe the growing throng of modern collectors can become
a little more sophisticated if we just explain to them that many modern coins
are clad. Surely no one will ever collect that crap! Then we can sell them all
our 1804 cents at greatly inflated prices. We're in the money now!

keets

me thinks thou art making a joke, oh clad one. thou jousteth again!!!!

cladking

No, I seem to hiteth nought but air. Can't licketh air, so...

keets

i figure there's truth in what truth says---classics are a safe haven, but only to a point. i can't shake the thought of all the money collectors lost each time our rich uncle released all the morgans he'd horded!! and if you check prices back in 1989 a good majority of classics have lost value. truly rare coins have held up a bit better. i figure the guessing game with all those worthless clads you like is in figuring which ones will stay low pop grade rarities.i try to stay above 66 with the stuff i collect. not much rarity there in a lot of issues, but nice problem free coins that should at least hold what i pay for them.

back to the theme of the thread, i think movement between the 2 defined areas, classic and modern is a personal thing, not really subject to the market fluctuations as much as some people feel. i collect what appeals to me and what i can acquire for what i determine is a fair price. my thing right now is type, and i'm moving between the two areas. modern commems now. i'm gonna take a shot at gmarguli's washington in MS68-----so everybody keepauhandsoff!!!!!

oh cladish knave, dost thou ever sleep!!!!

al h.

wondercoin

"Legend also purchased the 1884 dime for strong money"

TDN: Since I was the underbidder to Legend on both the 2 cent piece and the 1884 dime at near "nose-bleed" levels, at least I know I am pursuing the right coins!! Wondercoin.

robbnsc

You hit the nail on the head. I have been trying to buy slabbed SL dimes and some gold for a set and there is nothing much out there. The classic coins that dealers have in stock is pretty po-fixins as they say. Even the auctions lately have pretty limited rare coin stock in the collector price ranges.

I think that prices are so low for classical coins that no one is willing to sell. I noticed in some of the CU auctions that coins have been pulled from bidding during the auction because of low bids.