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My latest Anglo-Saxon Newp (was: The trials and tribulations of auctions)

EVillageProwlerEVillageProwler Posts: 5,859 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited April 28, 2017 2:06PM in World & Ancient Coins Forum

I had an agent view and bid on two major lots. The first lot had an estimate of 5K - 6K, so I put my max bid down at 9K (after consultation with my dealer agent). In live action, that lot hovered at 9K for what seemed like an eternity -- then shot up to 16K. Both my wife and @Nap tried to console me.

At 16K hammer, plus BP translates to about $24K. Dodging that invoice is consolation enough, but I really wanted the coin.

~ 2h later my second lot came up. Got a text message from Nap asking if I had won, but I got busy with work and actually forgot. I got onto the auction one lot too late. It hammered at my max bid, but I don't know if it was a prior book bid, or floor or live Internet. I think the auction concludes in about 1h or so.

Does anyone know if, with Spink, a floor bid supersedes a live Internet bid? (I've never actually ever bid live in Spink before.)

EVP

How does one get a hater to stop hating?

I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com

Comments

  • 7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 7,228 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yikes. A Big Player Here!

    Think they go with floor bid by recall but whoever' s registers first.

    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
  • EVillageProwlerEVillageProwler Posts: 5,859 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @7Jaguars said:
    Yikes. A Big Player Here!

    Think they go with floor bid by recall but whoever' s registers first.

    Big player? Perhaps bigger than some but lesser than others, as is typical. It's not like I have $10K to $20K to throw around on a regular basis. The truth is that in order to complete my set of the few remaining pieces that I need, I need to realize that they're all ~ $10K in the grade I want. I've been selling a bunch of coins from my much shrunken US collection to fund my new reality. It hurts to see my precious coins go, but I am trying hard to replace them with worthy pieces.

    As for the Spink sale, it's concluded but I haven't heard from my agent yet. This wait for official information is killing me. Got a provisional congrats from @Nap, so if the result of the second coin is against me I can blame him for jinxing me. :#

    EVP

    How does one get a hater to stop hating?

    I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com

  • NapNap Posts: 1,702 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's usually my fault so apologies if I jinxed it.

    However, for the physicists in the room, EVP's coin is Schroedinger's cat. It's either alive or dead, we just haven't opened the box yet

  • NapNap Posts: 1,702 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If not clear, EVP's numbers are in £ (pounds)

    We can talk pros and cons of each coin, and whether the first one was a missed opportunity or an expensive bullett dodged, but it still stings to lose at auction.

    While these are no doubt expensive coins, they are British "classic rarities" and likely 1/10th of what they would be worth if they were similarly rare and desirable American coins.

  • YorkshiremanYorkshireman Posts: 4,493 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nap,
    What you say is true. American rarities are priced way above what most collectors can spend. That is one reason why I starting looking again at British and Latin American coins. I recently bought a Mexican 8 Reales in MS 66+ (only 1 of 3 in that condition for the whole series and paid less than one would think.

    Yorkshireman,Obsessed collector of round, metallic pieces of history.Hunting for Latin American colonial portraits plus cool US & British coins.
  • EVillageProwlerEVillageProwler Posts: 5,859 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 28, 2017 2:13PM

    It's been confirmed that I won the second coin. Here is the lot description:

    Alfred the Great (871-899), Halfpenny, 0.72g, elfr edre, profile bust right, two trefoils of pellets dividing legend, rev. londonia monogram, cross above and below, trefoil of pellets left (N.645; S.1063), slight porosity, almost very fine, extremely rare

    This coin is far rarer than the full penny. The coins in my Anglo-Saxon collection are generally of higher quality, but I'm not convinced that this is not a fit because it's a wholesome piece (not damaged nor overly porous) and I'm unconvinced that a much better piece will reasonably come around (and, if I do upgrade, I think I can easily sell this one).

    Here is how my agent described the coin:

    "Cute. A few light marks and somewhat matte appeareance due to very light porosity. Rather underestimated in my opinion."

    How does one get a hater to stop hating?

    I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com

  • SDSportsFanSDSportsFan Posts: 5,086 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Congrats on the Alfred the Great win!!!

    I would love to pick up a coin picturing him as well, as I'm working on a British monarchs set.

    Steve

  • EVillageProwlerEVillageProwler Posts: 5,859 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @SDSportsFan said:
    Congrats on the Alfred the Great win!!!

    I would love to pick up a coin picturing him as well, as I'm working on a British monarchs set.

    Steve

    Thanks. I've been wanting an AtG piece with the London monogram reverse for a long time. I already own a well-loved portrait specimen (SCBC 1057A). The portrait AtG pieces are expensive. You can get a wholesome non-portrait AtG penny for "only" in the low 4-figure range.

    As for your British monarchs set, where do you start? Eadgar? Aethelstan? What's your target grade range (in either British grading or USA TPG scale)?

    EVP

    How does one get a hater to stop hating?

    I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com

  • EVillageProwlerEVillageProwler Posts: 5,859 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Yorkshireman said:
    Nap,
    What you say is true. American rarities are priced way above what most collectors can spend. That is one reason why I starting looking again at British and Latin American coins. I recently bought a Mexican 8 Reales in MS 66+ (only 1 of 3 in that condition for the whole series and paid less than one would think.

    I saw your post about the 8R in 66+. Congrats.

    I also wholly agree with the sentiment of the average collector getting priced out of the US market. For example, a 1794 dollar, even in a grade I do not want, is out of my price range. And a common 1795 FH (BB-27) in a price I am willing to spend would not be in a grade I want to have. A wholesome circulated BB-27 has a market value of a high grade OX Declaration Halfpound or two nice Newark siege pieces, or two really nice German or Italian States crowns in high grade.

    EVP

    How does one get a hater to stop hating?

    I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com

  • NapNap Posts: 1,702 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Congrats on the Alfred Londonia halfpenny!

    I could write something about the history of this coin, but instead I'll just link to the British Museum's commentary:

    http://culturalinstitute.britishmuseum.org/asset-viewer/silver-penny-of-alfred-the-great/-wHR8669T7BbUA?hl=en

    The coin was thought to commemorate retaking London from the Vikings in 886 but the commentary above seems to suggest otherwise. The London monogram is in the style found on late Roman, Gothic, and some Merovingian coinage.

    Here is my "Londonia" example which is actually most likely a Viking contemporary imitation of Alfred's coinage:

  • EVillageProwlerEVillageProwler Posts: 5,859 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Nap

    Nice Viking piece.

    Yesterday I trawled the Internet trying to find more information about this 1/2p type as well as about my coin specifically (before I realized that mine is from the Stewartby collection). I found a single other example of this type that was in Antony Wilson's inventory. Nice coin, but of note was his comment also saying what the BM said, that coin was likely produced circa 880.

    I have always believed the coin was meant to commemorate his victory in 878, although I admit no longer remembering why I believe that.

    Another thing I noticed from my web trawling yesterday was how much more plentiful of the 1p over the 1/2p for the royal (non-Viking) issues of the AtG Londonia type. Felt like a 10:1 ratio, or more.

    EVP

    How does one get a hater to stop hating?

    I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com

  • NapNap Posts: 1,702 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Alfred the dog approves!

    (Holly the cat couldn't care less)

    I haven't found a provenance for your Alfred 1/2p. Where did you see it in Stewartby collection?

    It's not one of the specimens referenced here:

    http://www.britnumsoc.org/publications/Digital BNJ/pdfs/1955_BNJ_28_36.pdf

  • EVillageProwlerEVillageProwler Posts: 5,859 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Nap,

    It in the catalog OOS.

    EVP

    How does one get a hater to stop hating?

    I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com

  • NapNap Posts: 1,702 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 29, 2017 9:14AM

    Snuck it in there. I didn't read that page... Thanks

  • SDSportsFanSDSportsFan Posts: 5,086 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @EVillageProwler said:

    @SDSportsFan said:
    Congrats on the Alfred the Great win!!!

    I would love to pick up a coin picturing him as well, as I'm working on a British monarchs set.

    Steve

    Thanks. I've been wanting an AtG piece with the London monogram reverse for a long time. I already own a well-loved portrait specimen (SCBC 1057A). The portrait AtG pieces are expensive. You can get a wholesome non-portrait AtG penny for "only" in the low 4-figure range.

    As for your British monarchs set, where do you start? Eadgar? Aethelstan? What's your target grade range (in either British grading or USA TPG scale)?

    EVP

    I'm starting with the kings of Wessex, as I've traced my family's ancestry to them (from what I've found, Alfred was my 36th great-grandfather). I'm using Spink's "Coins of England and the United Kingdom Pre-Decimal Issues 50th Edition", which begins in Wessex, with Beorhtric (although the Excel spreadsheet I built goes back to Cerdic in 519). So far, the earliest coin I have is an Aethelred II penny (also the only pre-Henry II coin I currently have. Nearly all my early hammered coins are in the VF 20/30 range, all NGC graded. My only prerequisite is that a coin have a visible portrait (for those with a portrait) and readable monarch's name.

    I'm also working on Scotland coins, and have pennys of Alexander III and David II, as well as a 2 pence of Robert II and a Mary Queen of Scots bawbee.

    Steve

  • EVillageProwlerEVillageProwler Posts: 5,859 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @SDSportsFan,

    Wow, you're pretty ambitious. A Beorhtric penny in TPG VF will be expensive, as will several others. But, I wish you luck. Feel free to reach out to me offline if you want to chat and be nerdy.

    EVP

    How does one get a hater to stop hating?

    I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com

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