Sunday Willimantic, Connecticut Coin show report

roadrunner

My first show in a while, shaking the rust off. Helped my old "partner" man his table so he could do some walk arounds from time to time. Didn't see many (or any) collectors bringing stuff to the table for offers. Last time few times at the show it seemed like a non-stop parade of coins being offered, even if most weren't buyable. This time it was just the dealers coming by to offer coins up or try to buy something cheap. Foot traffic was heavy nonetheless. Just walking in I saw numerous cars with out of state plates, one from Pennsylvania. Everyone said the show was real "busy." But, my take was that the dealers were doing most of the "busying."

I tossed a couple of coins in my friend's bourse case that I felt had minimal chances of even being looked at, never mind selling. Several of them did sell much to my surprise - raw 1857-0 quarter XF45 with luster for $200, PCGS XF40 1872-s half for $210, 1887 Morgan PCGS MS66 semi-toner for $285. I displayed a very pq, and semi-PL 1904 $20 Lib in an old fatty NGC MS63 with sticker than I bought off GC a few months back as a decent 64 shot. I must have had half a dozen offers just under what I paid ($1500). But I wasn't interested in taking even a $5 loss on the coin. One dealer came back 3X with rising offers of $1450, $1475, $1480. I put it out for show mainly. Surprisingly, the prices of generic 64's have fallen just about to the level of CAC 63's. Now you need a CAC 64 or MS65 to make anything on a upgraded common $20 Lib.

There was very little at the show in 63-67 CAC gold. I didn't see a single $20 or $10 CAC in that grade range. I liked a 1908 NM Wells Fargo PCGS MS67, the only saint I saw above a 64 grade....and one of the nicest ones I've run across. But, at $8K or so the coin that was carrying a decent chunk of a CAC sticker premium. It looked nice enough to sticker imo and really wasn't generic. Very mark free and with nice coloration. Saw some coins on the floor I didn't expect to see. One was a slabbed MS64+ red 1842 Large Cent. At $7500 or so was way out of my league. What did sort of excite me was seeing a raw Red 1853 large cent in a regular stapled 2X2....as if the dealer wasn't sure what they had (lol....they did though). It had the "look" of original red from 2 feet away so I asked to see it. When I heard the price ($2500), I deflated. Coin would need to be a lock 65 RD to command that price. It was a real nice 64, maybe even 64+. With a $750/$2500 spread in 64/65, it wasn't buyable for me with reasonable risk. Last time I was offered raw, gem Red original large cents I bought 3 as part of one deal for $1250 each....and sold them all for $2500 each after they slabbed NGC MS65 RD (1988). Interesting that today's CDN MS65 bid is the same as 1988. And I don't think the standards for a MS65 RD large cent are all that much different from then to now....or at least maybe not as much as in other series, especially silver and gold coins.

Another coin I considered buying was an album toned PCI PF-63 1867 seated quarter at $600. While the coin would be 100% body bagged at PCGS/NGC for right obv field excessive hairlines, and potential "QT" album toning, it had a nice cameo look. Would be a burial as a PF63 at $600. But the reverse had considerable field luster as did the obverse peripherals. I felt it was possibly/probably mint state...certainly no wear. And this date has a CDN value of $2000 in MS60 and $750 or so in VF. In the end, I just passed, though 5-10 years ago, I'd have taken a crack at it. Too many unknowns. But that could have been a score.

My buddy had a nice original group of VF-AU seated quarters and halves from an older collector selling out. In fact he mentioned some large estates have been coming his way the past 1-2 yrs from older collectors deciding to move on. The 1865-s half in XF40 ($350) was the one that caught my eye as it was a very "dirty" original. Perfect light to medium, uniform gray toning, with just the right amount of dark grime splashes in all the devices. I haven't seen that kind of coin in a while, never mind on 1860's S mints where most have been scrubbed. I'd have considered buying it at full CDN "bid" of $350 but felt there was a chance it might only grade out VF35. A couple hidden carbon flecks too. Such is life for a stone original. Great top 5% coin for the grade for someone looking for a choice 1865-s half dollar in prime collector grade.

ShadyDave stopped by to say hello and we discussed the current state of affairs in various markets. He is on the right path with a good feel for risk vs. reward. I brought along my copy of the 100 Greatest US Coins to give away to some deserving youngster. It wasn't that easy with only a few stopping by the table. Finally found a late 20's/early 30's dad with a 8-10 year old who both seemed interested enough in coins. They got the book. It was only collecting dust with me.

My buddy bought quite a bit of gold/silver/bullion the past few weeks and was clearing it out at the show. He put aside a couple rolls of fresh BU 1964 JFK's figuring I might have an interest. He offered the 20 coin rolls at $125 each (basically melt or 12.5X face). Either I could buy them or he'd walk them to another dealer at the show who would. Couldn't say no to cheap and flashy bullion, lol. No doubt the bullion trade is still a big plus for many dealers.

golden

Thanks for the nice report.

roadrunner

Several PNG stopped by the table so I took advantage of that time to ask them pointed questions about the market. One of them who used to be quite the player in slabbing raw coins, or cracking out coins for higher grades mentioned that while they still do that to some degree, their primary money is being made in raw coins. "It's where the money is" they said. Another one stated that the high end of the market for "special" coins while "good," is also quite thin in some areas now that Pogue, Gardner, Newman, etc. having been sold. He gave an example of a finest known 19th century silver coin, pop 1, fresh to the market after 20 yrs. The coin was worth "X" to the one dealer with the biggest foot print in that material, while next buyer in line might only be "1/2 X." As a seller, be careful if you pass on the first dealer "with the major footprint" because there may not be anyone else close by. All those dealers emphasized the "greying" of the former baby boomer coin market.

I asked one PNG dealer who handles a ton of slabbed and raw gold at every show about what they felt CAC's influences have been on generic BU gold. In short, he said it's been devastated. He then volunteered that among MS65 Saints, you're lucky if 5% of a larger order comes back stickered. His unsolicited statement. Interesting, that I mentioned a few weeks back here those mirrored my own experiences with large submissions. The seemingly absurdly low prices of MS65 $2-1/2 Libs down to around $600 bid was discussed (recall that in Nov 2009 you could sell MS64's for around $1350). One dealer noted that whenever they try to buy MS65 gold from the big boyz at those low stated bid/ask levels....none are available. Hmmm.

I got to see one really neat draped bust Mint State slabbed red copper. It was old holdered and very fresh to the market. What a beauty. While the asking price was next grade up, the coin had the eye appeal of 2 grades higher. Been a while since I saw an absolutely full red original early draped bust copper that hadn't even been "Cared." And it was a lower MS grade, not MS65 or higher. That will find a nice home in the near future. I don't go out of my way to look at draped bust copper at shows/auctions...but this was right there to look at.

In short, I'd say the show had a lack of real quality coins....being displayed. And that could be because the nicest stuff is trading behind the table dealer to dealer, buddy to buddy. The coins of mine I sold, went to dealers who were going to sell them to customers. Very little in choice/gem 19th or early 20th century material. Not much in choice early bust circ type. Flowing hair stuff? Can't recall seeing anything. I saw a Fair 1796 quarter. Can't say anything I saw in pre-1900 MS/PF 63 or higher type really caught my eye. John's Coins did have a decent 1837 no stars half dime NGC MS64 for $1400. The coin was original and clean enough to be MS65. Might have needed more luster blast on the reverse. I told him I'd seen lesser coins in 65 holders. The red MS draped bust copper was the single neatest coin I saw at the show. There was an NGC PF66 Morgan there but didn't excite me enough from a distance to want to see it. While Willimantic is a once/yr regional show, Baltimore is right around the corner as is the Mass Bay State show in April. No need to bring real nice stuff here if you're doing those shows soon.

originalisbest

Liked this report and insights. Thanks rr.

BLUEJAYWAY

Nice gesture RR giving the coin book free to a youngster. Good report as well.

1630Boston

Thanks for the report and it is nice to give away what we don't need to someone that may appreciate it.

Walkerguy21D

Wow - great detail - thanks for taking the time, RR!

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Jackthecat1

Thank you for the interesting show report.

roadrunner

I got countered way more than I ever did before. 2-3 counters/requests for lower price seems to be the new normal. March Madness.....one counter offer, one best price request....and you're done.

logger7

Thanks RR for the report, pretty thorough, I'm sure it will be a different story in Baltimore in a few days. I got there late, it's a two hour drive. By that point some of the nicer material may have been snapped up. Still I was able to get a no motto $10 that I expect to AU for $850. A local currency dealer had a great show who deals only in raw, and a couple of the show regulars defended raw numismatic selling vociferously. Personally I believe that anything over a certain value figure should be slabbed for a lot of reasons.

JJSingleton

Nice report. Thanks

kaz

Thanks for that report, RR, full of information and keen observations.

ShadyDave

It wasn't good to see you @roadrunner and talk shop. I agree there was not much CAC gold there as I was looking to add to my tribe of Indians. The floor was busy all day (with quite a few of us collectors under 30) and 77 sellers/dealers.

It helps to have a myriad of items offered there: US gold, copper and silver, foreign coins, paper money, bullion and minerals/gems and other collectbles...a little bit something for everyone.

I grabbed a burger and a beer at the micro-brewery, Willimantic Brewery on the way home and saw this work of art

jdmern

On the world coin side, it was a very good show for us... You are absolutely correct in that there seemed to be no collectors bringing stuff in to sell...

I did think there was quite a good amount of younger collectors for a show

Justacommeman

Very nice report BMan. Glad to see you dusting off the loupe and getting back in the trenches sir

m

breakdown

Great report. Would have loved to see that 65-S seated half. As I have purchased MS seated coins over the last 6-7 years, I have toyed with idea of putting together some set of XF/AU seated halves but I have seen very few I liked. So much processed stuff in that grade range.
Makes me wish I could get to Balty this week but that isn't looking likely.

Kccoin

Thanks for the report, and for your insight. Sounds like you had a good time

roadrunner

Thanks for the replies. It was a good time seeing lots of old friends....and most of them were old...lol.

My buddy wanted me to mention that he was offered a FAKE 1881-cc in a GSA holder. I think he said the GSA holder might have been fake too but I'm not sure. I didn't get a chance to see it.

sellitstore

This was always a strong show for paper money. We used to set up there about 20 years ago. At that time, it was 75%+ currency with a few coins here and there.

Are there many currency only dealers left? Maybe 25%, or less?

roadrunner

There were a number of dealers with mostly all currency. Maybe a dozen or more? 15-20%? Still a good show for those interested in currency, exonumia, and various coin-related collectibles. The dealer next to us was also selling gem stones.