I'm sure if some you actually did a little of your own research instead of relying on biased PM pushing, doomsday, and pseudo-patriotic websites, you would develop a more pragmatic and logical understanding.
Here is some pragmatic and logical understanding for you: We have added more national debt in the past 10 years than in the previous 200 years. Im sure there is no problem with that though!
Some more logical interpretation for you......it took 191 years to accumulate our 1st $1 trillion of debt (1791-1982). It then took another 26 years (1982-2008) to get us to $10 trillion. Its taken just under 9 more years to get to $20 trillion. And this is just actual debt owed....lets not even discuss the 800 pound gorilla in the room.....an estimated $70 trillion worth of unfunded obligations! Is this the type of independent research you were speaking of?
@Geckster109 said:
Sorry cohodk, but that doesn't look like a linear function to me!
You might want to look up the definition of exponential.
Then you will realize the limitations of the presentation of the graph. Its a very common mistake that most people make, and is why folks can't read them properly.
So would you describe this as linear growth then? Its the same as any other exponential function....the growth is happening at a much faster rate as time progresses. I think it may be you who needs to look up the meaning of "exponential".
I'd like to see a graph showing the cost of servicing the national debt as a percentage of the federal budget versus time. I read recently that the current cost of servicing the national debt is about 25% of the federal budget.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
A single bacteria is living in a glass jar. The population of bacteria doubles in size every day. By day 30, the jar is completely full. On what day is the jar just half full? I wonder if even by day 26, the bacteria population even knew they had a problem at all? In my opinion, we are on day 27.....some of the smarter ones are looking around saying "hey man, we have a serious issue here", but most of the population is completely oblivious....even when warned by the smarter ones.
@Geckster109 said:
Some more logical interpretation for you......it took 191 years to accumulate our 1st $1 trillion of debt (1791-1982). It then took another 26 years (1982-2008) to get us to $10 trillion. Its taken just under 9 more years to get to $20 trillion. And this is just actual debt owed....lets not even discuss the 800 pound gorilla in the room.....an estimated $70 trillion worth of unfunded obligations! Is this the type of independent research you were speaking of?
Your logic is all FUBAR. Did you know it took 200 years to build this country and populate it with 300 million people. You look at absolutes and don't see relativity. In 1791 a laborer made about 30 cents per day...now he makes that about every minute.
Your mortgage is an unfunded liability. So is your car payment. Problem is you can't really raise your income, while the govt and municipalities have many ways to increase theirs. We went thru this before with you and your firefighters pension. If Chicago says they can't afford to pay you 80k to be retired, they WILL reduce it to 40k. And I would expect this if I were you.
@Geckster109 said:
A single bacteria is living in a glass jar. The population of bacteria doubles in size every day. By day 30, the jar is completely full. On what day is the jar just half full? I wonder if even by day 26, the bacteria population even knew they had a problem at all? In my opinion, we are on day 27.....some of the smarter ones are looking around saying "hey man, we have a serious issue here", but most of the population is completely oblivious....even when warned by the smarter ones.
@Geckster109 said:
A single bacteria is living in a glass jar. The population of bacteria doubles in size every day. By day 30, the jar is completely full. On what day is the jar just half full? I wonder if even by day 26, the bacteria population even knew they had a problem at all? In my opinion, we are on day 27.....some of the smarter ones are looking around saying "hey man, we have a serious issue here", but most of the population is completely oblivious....even when warned by the smarter ones.
If the population doubles each day and the jar is full on day 30, then the jar would be half full on day 29.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
_Jmski, WTF are you talking about? One chart goes from 0 to 15000 and the other from 0 to 15000 in same time frame. What kind of math do you use?
Purpose of the chart is to show the flaws of visualization without context.
And the only reason I posted the chart I did was because it was all I could find on short notice.
I can't believe you guys don't know what seats are. Sheesh!! Lol
_
lol, I made a mistake. I didn't notice that your blue chart only went up to 2010, which conveniently discounts what has happened since - and to the untrained eye, the slope of the line seems to have increased since 2010. Even so, when I scale the first chart to the second chart, the increase shown in the first chart is still 2.7 times larger (faster) than the rate of increase shown in the second chart. 2.7 orders of magnitude. (In statistical parlance, that's "significant".) lol
By the way, this is the very first time in my entire life that I've come across the term "seats" in reference to economics or finance. You make the same mistake of visualization without context when you don't provide context to the graph you showed. One scale of 0 to 15000 isn't necessarily the same as another scale of 1 to 15000 when the units aren't defined. Care to enlighten us? Or are we going to continue speaking in code?
cohodk, I'm using advanced graphing skills and geometry that I learned in sophomore geometry class and in my senior pre-calc math class, and measuring the heights and lengths on a graph still seems to me to be quite valid. Did they change math since then, or when you took it? We baby boomers were actually taught stuff, all those years ago.
What kind of math are you using?
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
We went thru this before with you and your firefighters pension. If Chicago says they can't afford to pay you 80k to be retired, they WILL reduce it to 40k. And I would expect this if I were you.
Just like how Stockton, California, and Detroit were able to diminish the payments to their municipal retirees, right? You outta actually look around once in awhile at reality instead of living within the concepts inside your own head.
@Geckster109 said:
A single bacteria is living in a glass jar. The population of bacteria doubles in size every day. By day 30, the jar is completely full. On what day is the jar just half full? I wonder if even by day 26, the bacteria population even knew they had a problem at all? In my opinion, we are on day 27.....some of the smarter ones are looking around saying "hey man, we have a serious issue here", but most of the population is completely oblivious....even when warned by the smarter ones.
If the population doubles each day and the jar is full on day 30, then the jar would be half full on day 29.
A single bacteria in an otherwise empty jar isn't going to keep doubling until it fills the jar with bacteria.
Bacteria, like any organism, need water and food, and usually air (although there are anaerobic bacteria, too, they of course still need water and fuel containing oxygen compounds). So unless there is a supply of resources in the jar too, then stasis.
When the resources run low, and the waste products build up, the growth slows down, due to system "carrying capacity"
Don't even get me started on the anthromorphization of microorganisms, and having them say things like, "hey man.."
Comments
I'm sure if some you actually did a little of your own research instead of relying on biased PM pushing, doomsday, and pseudo-patriotic websites, you would develop a more pragmatic and logical understanding.
Here is some pragmatic and logical understanding for you: We have added more national debt in the past 10 years than in the previous 200 years. Im sure there is no problem with that though!
Some more logical interpretation for you......it took 191 years to accumulate our 1st $1 trillion of debt (1791-1982). It then took another 26 years (1982-2008) to get us to $10 trillion. Its taken just under 9 more years to get to $20 trillion. And this is just actual debt owed....lets not even discuss the 800 pound gorilla in the room.....an estimated $70 trillion worth of unfunded obligations! Is this the type of independent research you were speaking of?
So would you describe this as linear growth then? Its the same as any other exponential function....the growth is happening at a much faster rate as time progresses. I think it may be you who needs to look up the meaning of "exponential".
I'd like to see a graph showing the cost of servicing the national debt as a percentage of the federal budget versus time. I read recently that the current cost of servicing the national debt is about 25% of the federal budget.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
A single bacteria is living in a glass jar. The population of bacteria doubles in size every day. By day 30, the jar is completely full. On what day is the jar just half full? I wonder if even by day 26, the bacteria population even knew they had a problem at all? In my opinion, we are on day 27.....some of the smarter ones are looking around saying "hey man, we have a serious issue here", but most of the population is completely oblivious....even when warned by the smarter ones.
Your logic is all FUBAR. Did you know it took 200 years to build this country and populate it with 300 million people. You look at absolutes and don't see relativity. In 1791 a laborer made about 30 cents per day...now he makes that about every minute.
Your mortgage is an unfunded liability. So is your car payment. Problem is you can't really raise your income, while the govt and municipalities have many ways to increase theirs. We went thru this before with you and your firefighters pension. If Chicago says they can't afford to pay you 80k to be retired, they WILL reduce it to 40k. And I would expect this if I were you.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
_the growth is happening at a much faster rate as time progresses.-
No it isnt. Please look up the meaning of exponential.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
I'm not smarter, I just know more.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
If the population doubles each day and the jar is full on day 30, then the jar would be half full on day 29.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
_Jmski, WTF are you talking about? One chart goes from 0 to 15000 and the other from 0 to 15000 in same time frame. What kind of math do you use?
Purpose of the chart is to show the flaws of visualization without context.
And the only reason I posted the chart I did was because it was all I could find on short notice.
I can't believe you guys don't know what seats are. Sheesh!! Lol
_
lol, I made a mistake. I didn't notice that your blue chart only went up to 2010, which conveniently discounts what has happened since - and to the untrained eye, the slope of the line seems to have increased since 2010. Even so, when I scale the first chart to the second chart, the increase shown in the first chart is still 2.7 times larger (faster) than the rate of increase shown in the second chart. 2.7 orders of magnitude. (In statistical parlance, that's "significant".) lol
By the way, this is the very first time in my entire life that I've come across the term "seats" in reference to economics or finance. You make the same mistake of visualization without context when you don't provide context to the graph you showed. One scale of 0 to 15000 isn't necessarily the same as another scale of 1 to 15000 when the units aren't defined. Care to enlighten us? Or are we going to continue speaking in code?
cohodk, I'm using advanced graphing skills and geometry that I learned in sophomore geometry class and in my senior pre-calc math class, and measuring the heights and lengths on a graph still seems to me to be quite valid. Did they change math since then, or when you took it? We baby boomers were actually taught stuff, all those years ago.
What kind of math are you using?
I knew it would happen.
We went thru this before with you and your firefighters pension. If Chicago says they can't afford to pay you 80k to be retired, they WILL reduce it to 40k. And I would expect this if I were you.
Just like how Stockton, California, and Detroit were able to diminish the payments to their municipal retirees, right? You outta actually look around once in awhile at reality instead of living within the concepts inside your own head.
Manu municipalities have cut pensions including Detroit. You have been warned Gecko.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Jmski, I think you understand the problem you are experiencing. The charts are different size and scaling. See how the PM doomsdayers try to fool you.
Stop trying to measure the graph itself.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
cohodk, I actually expected more from you than another deflection. Nobody's fooling anyone here.
I knew it would happen.
A single bacteria in an otherwise empty jar isn't going to keep doubling until it fills the jar with bacteria.
Bacteria, like any organism, need water and food, and usually air (although there are anaerobic bacteria, too, they of course still need water and fuel containing oxygen compounds). So unless there is a supply of resources in the jar too, then stasis.
When the resources run low, and the waste products build up, the growth slows down, due to system "carrying capacity"
Don't even get me started on the anthromorphization of microorganisms, and having them say things like, "hey man.."
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry