Resting in the NBA

BLUEJAYWAYBLUEJAYWAY Posts: 2,193 ✭✭✭

With tonight's prime time tilt on ABC, Cavs/Clips, the announcers and half time reporters really hammered the Cavs for resting their top 3. This on the heels of the resting of the stars for the GSW in their game vs. the Spurs the other night. Forget the commish getting involved, the network bigs will give the league office h**l as this affects lower viewership and lowers the TV ad watching/ratings. The reason: resting for the playoffs. On the flip side it was noted during the game that many non contenders have thrown in the towel and are resting their elite players. Season ticket holders for these games should seek a discount for the remaining games. Or maybe show up in sleeping bags to get their "rest".

When the lady was asked "Why she kissed the cow" she responded "It's all a matter of opinion". "Everyone is equal,some are more equal than others"."Hey Fritz,keep your finger off the scale".

Comments

  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 12,458 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Really .... it's their team and they can rest players as they see fit.

  • CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 1,594 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Fans like to see the prime timers play, but each team has 12 members.....as long as 5 are on the court the obligation has been met.

  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 3,907 ✭✭✭

    Most teams have 1 player that matters if they are lucky . Teams like golden state and the cavs have more than that and its very noticeable when they are missing from the floor. Maybe there are twice as many teams as there need to be? We have the cream of the crop teams and a bunch of JV teams right now . If only we could find a supply of prima donnas with massive egos to distribute to the rest of the league to bolster some rosters . That would make it much riskier to sit all your top guys for a game.

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 1,686 ✭✭✭

    I'm not sure why these highly conditioned athletes can't make it through an 82 game season anymore. Many people would lead us to believe the modern athlete is so much more athletically gifted than those of yesterday. This new thing of resting stars seems a bit silly. Why not have them sit out practices instead? It seems jabbar, Malone, Stockton, olajuon, Jordan etc could make it through a full season. Why not now? Maybe today's athletes are not as conditioned as we think.

    Holy, I sound old!

    Collecting Frank Thomas and Greg Maddux
  • CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 1,594 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @bronco2078 said:
    Most teams have 1 player that matters if they are lucky . Teams like golden state and the cavs have more than that and its very noticeable when they are missing from the floor. Maybe there are twice as many teams as there need to be? We have the cream of the crop teams and a bunch of JV teams right now . If only we could find a supply of prima donnas with massive egos to distribute to the rest of the league to bolster some rosters . That would make it much riskier to sit all your top guys for a game.

    We get a bit jaded from our armchairs. The league contains 360 of the worlds greatest athletes. Yeah, many look feeble guarding LeBron, but still in a nation of 25,000,000 men between the ages of 20 and 30, these are the elite. The one in 70,000 that play for a check.

  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 3,907 ✭✭✭

    @Coinstartled said:

    @bronco2078 said:
    Most teams have 1 player that matters if they are lucky . Teams like golden state and the cavs have more than that and its very noticeable when they are missing from the floor. Maybe there are twice as many teams as there need to be? We have the cream of the crop teams and a bunch of JV teams right now . If only we could find a supply of prima donnas with massive egos to distribute to the rest of the league to bolster some rosters . That would make it much riskier to sit all your top guys for a game.

    We get a bit jaded from our armchairs. The league contains 360 of the worlds greatest athletes. Yeah, many look feeble guarding LeBron, but still in a nation of 25,000,000 men between the ages of 20 and 30, these are the elite. The one in 70,000 that play for a check.

    Basketball is different than the other major sports though. Without Lebron or Steph Curry or the like you have no chance .

    I agree with sitting them out of practice , does Lebron need to practice? For players like him it just represents wear and tear .

    I can think of examples from other sports , Cam Neely had an epic season towards the end of his career taking practice and certain games off. I think Mario Lemieux after the bout with lymphoma did as well.

    Tom Brady , Peyton Manning, Brett Farve? I think all did this as well.

  • CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 1,594 ✭✭✭✭✭

    """Basketball is different than the other major sports though. Without Lebron or Steph Curry or the like you have no chance ."""

    I am in favor of putting your best men on the floor/field each and every game. Plenty of time to rest in the off season. I recall Manning sitting out what could have been the sixteenth win for Indy and more recently an MLB pitcher pulled while giving up no hits into the late innings.

    Having said that, the money is in championships. GS's record win season last year will diminish in the minds of fans as they got beat by Cleveland in the finals.

    I am an old schooler that sits in the stands until the final out or whistle regardless of the lopsided score. Does not mean that I am right though about giving the fans all that they pay for at each event.

  • BLUEJAYWAYBLUEJAYWAY Posts: 2,193 ✭✭✭

    Karl Malone tweeted a terse commentary on this resting practice. It was read during the broadcast of the game last night during the halftime report. I can't remember it all, but it was damming to the "resters".

    When the lady was asked "Why she kissed the cow" she responded "It's all a matter of opinion". "Everyone is equal,some are more equal than others"."Hey Fritz,keep your finger off the scale".
  • grote15grote15 Posts: 24,269 ✭✭✭✭

    @craig44 said:
    I'm not sure why these highly conditioned athletes can't make it through an 82 game season anymore. Many people would lead us to believe the modern athlete is so much more athletically gifted than those of yesterday. This new thing of resting stars seems a bit silly. Why not have them sit out practices instead? It seems jabbar, Malone, Stockton, olajuon, Jordan etc could make it through a full season. Why not now? Maybe today's athletes are not as conditioned as we think.

    Holy, I sound old!

    I think it comes down to a combination of things, primarily reducing the risk of injury (protecting a team's investment) and the fact that for the better teams, the regular season truly is meaningless. The real season begins Game 83.



    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • BLUEJAYWAYBLUEJAYWAY Posts: 2,193 ✭✭✭

    I wonder how many pros rested/were allowed to rest (all sports), in the 50's/60's before the advent of all these playoff games. From what I understand the old time owners had a you play or you don't get paid attitude. Even a cut in pay off a great year. See Ralph Kiner. But times have changed. Unrelated to topic, but an example of how times have changed. I remember a story from long ago, not sure if true, about Mickey Mantle. He had tossed a ball into the stands after he caught a third out. The owner called him into the office after the game and made Mantle cough up the $ for the ball. Owners back then were tight fisted with a buck. Just look at baseball players pay back then. Most had regular jobs in the off season.

    When the lady was asked "Why she kissed the cow" she responded "It's all a matter of opinion". "Everyone is equal,some are more equal than others"."Hey Fritz,keep your finger off the scale".
  • CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 1,594 ✭✭✭✭✭

    "Most had regular jobs in the off season."

    Tigers GM Jim Campbell called Al Kaline into his office in the late 1960'S. Handed him a new contract to sign at $100,000. Kaline balked stating that he came off a bad year and didn't deserve the raise. Campbell insisted he accept the deal.

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 1,686 ✭✭✭

    @grote15 said:

    @craig44 said:
    I'm not sure why these highly conditioned athletes can't make it through an 82 game season anymore. Many people would lead us to believe the modern athlete is so much more athletically gifted than those of yesterday. This new thing of resting stars seems a bit silly. Why not have them sit out practices instead? It seems jabbar, Malone, Stockton, olajuon, Jordan etc could make it through a full season. Why not now? Maybe today's athletes are not as conditioned as we think.

    Holy, I sound old!

    I think it comes down to a combination of things, primarily reducing the risk of injury (protecting a team's investment) and the fact that for the better teams, the regular season truly is meaningless. The real season begins Game 83.

    I don't know that the regular season is meaningless. Even great teams need competition a level above practice to get their machines well oiled so to speak. And they need about 40-42 wins to make the playoffs. I think there have always been injury concerns etc. 20, 30, 40 years ago. Why do many of today's players lack that sense of grit or toughness that their predecessors seemed to possess? Is it entitlement culture? Coddling from a young age? I'm really not sure.

    Collecting Frank Thomas and Greg Maddux
  • grote15grote15 Posts: 24,269 ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 19, 2017 11:55PM

    @craig44 said:

    @grote15 said:

    @craig44 said:
    I'm not sure why these highly conditioned athletes can't make it through an 82 game season anymore. Many people would lead us to believe the modern athlete is so much more athletically gifted than those of yesterday. This new thing of resting stars seems a bit silly. Why not have them sit out practices instead? It seems jabbar, Malone, Stockton, olajuon, Jordan etc could make it through a full season. Why not now? Maybe today's athletes are not as conditioned as we think.

    Holy, I sound old!

    I think it comes down to a combination of things, primarily reducing the risk of injury (protecting a team's investment) and the fact that for the better teams, the regular season truly is meaningless. The real season begins Game 83.

    I don't know that the regular season is meaningless. Even great teams need competition a level above practice to get their machines well oiled so to speak. And they need about 40-42 wins to make the playoffs. I think there have always been injury concerns etc. 20, 30, 40 years ago. Why do many of today's players lack that sense of grit or toughness that their predecessors seemed to possess? Is it entitlement culture? Coddling from a young age? I'm really not sure.

    I'm not talking about the borderline .500 teams that need to play hard to make the playoffs, but teams like Cleveland, Golden State, San Antonio that can afford to rest players down the stretch. Heck, Golden State clinched a playoff spot a month ago and are already assured of a top seed in the playoffs. So is Cleveland. It has absolutely nothing to do with coddling or lack of conditioning or lack of grit or toughness. Did you see LeBron james's effort in last season's Finals? It's about gaining a competitive advantage for the playoffs, however slight it may be. Less court time in essentially meaningless regular season games reduces risk of injury and may help these guys be a bit fresher than their opponents come playoff time, even if that difference is rather negligible in all likelihood. It's the same reason NFL teams rest starters the last week of the regular season when they have already clinched.



    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • craig44craig44 Posts: 1,686 ✭✭✭

    Well, in the bulls six championship years in the 1990's, Jordan missed 6 total games. Stockton and Malone both played nearly every game. There were a host of others also. Why the sense of urgency now about resting and not then? A title was worth just as much then. Those players were worth just as much to their teams. What is the difference?

    Collecting Frank Thomas and Greg Maddux
  • grote15grote15 Posts: 24,269 ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 20, 2017 12:19AM

    What is the difference?

    Lots more money and revenue at stake now vs back then.

    Why don't pitchers throw over 100 pitches in a MLB game now, too, even when they are pitching effectively to that point?

    It's all about protecting investments.



    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 1,594 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @craig44 said:
    Well, in the bulls six championship years in the 1990's, Jordan missed 6 total games. Stockton and Malone both played nearly every game. There were a host of others also. Why the sense of urgency now about resting and not then? A title was worth just as much then. Those players were worth just as much to their teams. What is the difference?

    As I recall Jordan missed a season and a half to swing a bat.

  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 3,907 ✭✭✭

    @Coinstartled said:

    @craig44 said:
    Well, in the bulls six championship years in the 1990's, Jordan missed 6 total games. Stockton and Malone both played nearly every game. There were a host of others also. Why the sense of urgency now about resting and not then? A title was worth just as much then. Those players were worth just as much to their teams. What is the difference?

    As I recall Jordan missed a season and a half to swing a bat.

    Wasn't he forced out on the downlow over his gambling?

  • galaxy27galaxy27 Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭
    edited March 20, 2017 3:41AM

    @bronco2078 said:
    Wasn't he forced out on the downlow over his gambling?

    This has always been my contention. What he did was completely illogical for the supposed reasons given. Arguably the most competitive athlete in the history of sports citing a loss of desire at the height of his success? Sorry, didn't buy it then, and I'm still not buying it today.

    As far as the topic of this thread is concerned, I have no problem with resting studs. There is in inevitable power struggle in play here, and I honestly can't fault either side. Silver has a multibillion-dollar industry to protect. Head coaches -- who know their rosters better than anyone -- are in it to win a title, period. Something has to give.

    In the world of the NFL, it's WWBD? (What would Bill do?) The NBA's version of Belichick is Gregg Popovich; you simply don't question him, ever. Well, Pop has long been notorious for sitting guys. Back in '12 he left Duncan, Parker, Ginobili and Green at home when the Spurs played a LeBron-led Heat team in Miami for a primetime game. He was subsequently fined a quarter mil for "keeping it secret," and "doing a disservice to the league and its fans."

    Do you think that stopped him? Not only no, but hell no. In fact, after that he would often thumb his nose at the Association by putting "OLD" next to Duncan's name to explain away his DNP status. In short, don't you dare question me -- a legendary coach with 5 rings. So if he feels that preserving his horses is in the best interest of achieving the team's primary goal, then I'm good with that.

    And if you're a fan? You have to anticipate this stuff. If you wait until the 3/4 pole and beyond to fork over hard-earned money to see your favorite ballers in action, you run an inherent risk.

  • BLUEJAYWAYBLUEJAYWAY Posts: 2,193 ✭✭✭

    It is not wise from a marketing standpoint to "rest" your star players in a nationally televised game, I.E. the 2 this past week:Warriors/Spurs and the Cavs/Clippers. If you wish to promote/market the sport rest the stars on a subpar matchup if you have to rest the A-Team. Leave the top starting lineups intact for a nationally televised game between contenders and make it an exciting must see/playoff type preview type of game. Both of these games were an easy choice to skip as the outcome was never in doubt from the outset. No real need to watch. I did watch the second quarter and halftime of the Cav/Clippers tilt so as to follow the commentary by the announcing teams on the resting controversy. BTW the Cavs were expected to be at full force versus the lowly Lakers on Sunday. So the Cavs did not have to travel to play the Lakers after facing the Clippers. So they were fully rested to face a weaker foe. Maybe the A Team Cavs wanted to perform in front of the Laker Showtime crowd. Go figure.

    When the lady was asked "Why she kissed the cow" she responded "It's all a matter of opinion". "Everyone is equal,some are more equal than others"."Hey Fritz,keep your finger off the scale".
  • craig44craig44 Posts: 1,686 ✭✭✭

    @Coinstartled said:

    @craig44 said:
    Well, in the bulls six championship years in the 1990's, Jordan missed 6 total games. Stockton and Malone both played nearly every game. There were a host of others also. Why the sense of urgency now about resting and not then? A title was worth just as much then. Those players were worth just as much to their teams. What is the difference?

    As I recall Jordan missed a season and a half to swing a bat.

    That is why I specified during the 6 CHAMPIONSHIP years. Years when the Bulls were a great team and expected to go deep into the playoffs. Yet the greatest player on earth was not rested to keep him "fresh" for the playoffs. The last three championship years, Jordan was well into his 30's, older than LeBron is now. Yet they did not feel the need to rest him. Look at Malone and Stockton as well.

    Collecting Frank Thomas and Greg Maddux
  • craig44craig44 Posts: 1,686 ✭✭✭
    edited March 20, 2017 12:27PM

    And yes, I also believe in the forced "retirement" due to gambling for MJ

    Collecting Frank Thomas and Greg Maddux
  • CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 1,594 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @craig44 said:

    @Coinstartled said:

    @craig44 said:
    Well, in the bulls six championship years in the 1990's, Jordan missed 6 total games. Stockton and Malone both played nearly every game. There were a host of others also. Why the sense of urgency now about resting and not then? A title was worth just as much then. Those players were worth just as much to their teams. What is the difference?

    As I recall Jordan missed a season and a half to swing a bat.

    That is why I specified during the 6 CHAMPIONSHIP years. Years when the Bulls were a great team and expected to go deep into the playoffs. Yet the greatest player on earth was not rested to keep him "fresh" for the playoffs. The last three championship years, Jordan was well into his 30's, older than LeBron is now. Yet they did not feel the need to rest him. Look at Malone and Stockton as well.

    I will let you folks debate the reason that he took time off to play baseball. It was shortly after his father was murdered so his explanation was plausible. Same posters here that doubt my theory that game results are swayed to the homers are now promoting a cover up as to why the biggest star of the era was absent.

    Either way, baseball is a less strenuous endeavor that would be considered a rest or break from the NBA game.

  • CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 1,594 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Got sort of quiet here....

  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 3,907 ✭✭✭

    @Coinstartled said:
    Got sort of quiet here....

    Ya don't flatter yourself :D Weekend is over some of us have to work for a living.

    Actually since you bring up Jordan's dad I'm going to fasten on my tinfoil beanie and speculate it was over a gambling debt apples don't fall far from the tree

  • grote15grote15 Posts: 24,269 ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 21, 2017 12:37AM

    @bronco2078 said:

    @Coinstartled said:
    Got sort of quiet here....

    Ya don't flatter yourself :D Weekend is over some of us have to work for a living.

    Actually since you bring up Jordan's dad I'm going to fasten on my tinfoil beanie and speculate it was over a gambling debt apples don't fall far from the tree

    Mglicker has plenty more time to pontificate than most of us, lol..



    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 1,594 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 21, 2017 12:47AM

    @bronco2078 said:

    @Coinstartled said:
    Got sort of quiet here....

    Ya don't flatter yourself :D Weekend is over some of us have to work for a living.

    Actually since you bring up Jordan's dad I'm going to fasten on my tinfoil beanie and speculate it was over a gambling debt apples don't fall far from the tree

    Unlike his son, he was stopped while travelling.

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 1,686 ✭✭✭

    James Harden, "i'll rest when I'm done"

    Well, a modern player with an "old school" attitude. Refreshing.

    Collecting Frank Thomas and Greg Maddux
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