Crazy price for a Toned ANACS AU-58 1836 Dime! April 2020 update!
UltraHighRelief
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I was following this coin on Heritage last night and I was stunned to see that it sold for over $2,500!!
Does anyone have an idea why it sold for so much money?
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Two people wanted it with too much money.
Probably thinking MS64....When it was graded probably Mike Fahey or someone else there saw it as not unc..
There are some really nice toners in these old white ANACS holders that realize some fairly hefty prices. Some of the sellers want some of that action as well! I almost had one of those for well over trends, but it was all for the best since I too would have been buried in it...but what a way to go!
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Looks MS to me. I like it.
Lance.
It's a really nice looking coin but not 2500 dollars nice
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Those types of slabs are rare.
I doubt this is the reason. Back in late 80s and early 90s, ANACS is the only TPG that collectors could directly submit coins to. In other words, I believe plenty of such type of holders are still in collectors' hand. I also have a full double row box of them.
Real coins (and real rare slabs) sell for real money. It's time for collectors to take that chance. I bet you will see that dime in a PCGS MS63 slab one day. The coin deserves it and so does the new buyer for taking a chance and not being cowardly.
I was watching it too, but too rich for me.
I agree with the original poster, crazy money. The toned coin craze is annoying. It isn't "cowardly " not to pay crazy money. If you want a 63 PCGS 36 dime, you can get one for less than what you paid for the current 58 in this post. Three 63s auctioned last year, none above 2100. If a true rarity that is a different story. THEN go crazy
Someone thinks it will go MS. I own/have owned many of these old ANA holders. One thing I have noticed was they would mark a cleaned nice MS coin AU58 sometimes. I hope that is not the case here!
Certainly has potential as MS63/64. If the toning gets blessed you could have a toner MS64 on resubmission to PCGS/NGC, which would be worth more than the price paid if stickered. Could be a better variety as well. One tiny obv field hairline and a minute cut on the lower neck.
In 1989/1990 when this was graded, coins with rub or any facial marks were harshly graded. These days, a little rub doesn't even stop a CB dime from grading 64/65. I would fully expect a MS grade on this coin if the toning gets a pass, which seems likely. Most currently holdered MS63/64 CB Dimes aren't all that exciting...many dipped or with unattractive mottled or neutral toning. If this ANACS coin showed up in my area, I'd have considered paying 62 or better money if I liked it. The reverse of this coin appears fully gem, though with slightly muted luster. So why wouldn't the obverse fields/luster be of similar status? Seen many NGC MS64's looking no better than this one.
The last 2 early ANACS holdered bust coins I had were halves graded MS62 and MS63....both upgraded to NGC MS64. Both had slight high point rub. I'd expect upgrades from fresh, gold foil hologram reverse early ANACS holders. If the coin remains as AU58+ it could be the king of the Everyman bust dimes.
Probably not a good cac candidate as my guess is they would side with anacs on the coin not being fully Unc.. I had a great Bust dime in an NGC holder that graded MS61. It probably would have crossed at PCGS but didn't try. CAC would not sticker.
It is not a good CAC candidate in its current holder since CAC doesn't sticker ANACS.
I'd rather have this coin for $1150. It's PCGS AU-58 CAC
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@UltraHighRelief posted, "I was following this coin on Heritage last night and I was stunned to see that it sold for over $2,500!!"
https://coins.ha.com/itm/bust-dimes/1836-10c-au58-anacs-ngc-census-43-107-pcgs-population-32-98-cdn-575-whsle-bid-for-problem-free-ngc-pcgs-au58-m/a/131711-23194.s?ic2=mytracked-lotspage-lotlinks-12202013&tab=MyTrackedLots-101116
I was wondering the same thing!
It would help of course to have seen this coin "in person." I have not.
The high price realized is not because the coin is a rare die marriage - all the 1836 die marriages are R-3, or below. Nor is this coin struck from a rare late die state, for example, with a cud (cuds on early silver coins have been known to bring crazy prices).
In general, an 1836 Dime would have to grade PCGS MS64 (or be one heck of a MS63!) to justify the $2,585.00 price realized. Per the PCGS Auction archives, the highest auction price realized since the year 2000 for a PCGS or NGC 1836 Dime in AU58 is $834 and in MS63 is $2,115. I sold the Kirk Gorman 1836 JR-3 Dime in PCGS AU58 for $1,200 in a Sealed Bid sale that I held last year. The Gorman 1836 Dime was a stunningly attractive AU coin in my opinion, but realized less than half of the $2,585. The Gorman 1836 JR-3 Dime had not been sent to CAC at the time of sale; I believe the buyer sent it to CAC after winning the lot in my sale, and it received a green sticker. Here is a photo of the Gorman 1836 JR-3 Dime that I sold in 2016 for $1,200:
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Photo courtesy of W. David Perkins
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In summary, the ANACS AU58 1836 Dime is not a rare die marriage, it was graded ANACS AU58 in the sale, and some think that it might grade Mint State per comments above. What would it be worth if it graded PCGS AU58+ CAC? MS-63, with or without a CAC sticker? MS-64?
My guess: I think the two high bidders think that it might be a 64. It would be fun to know their thoughts.
The mystery continues....
W. David Perkins Numismatics - http://www.davidperkinsrarecoins.com/ - 25+ Years ANA, ANS, NLG, NBS, LM JRCS, LSCC, EAC, TAMS, LM CWTS, CSNS, FUN
Looking at the original images on HA, it is clearly uncirculated, so why did they give it a net 58? Hidden problem is my guess.
I haven't seen this coin in hand, but something looks off on this coin. I don't think it would CAC if it was in a PCGS AU-58 holder.
I agree that it could be a 63, but for the winning bidder to make a profit it would have to 64, which seems unlikely.
I prefer the AU-58 CAC that I posted earlier and also the killer AU-58 CAC that WDP posted above which was sold last year.
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Wow... that's a great looking slab. It went way too cheap.
'dude
Graded back in the days when a coin had to not have any wear on it to be called Mint State. That is no longer the case on early U.S. coins.
@CaptHenway posted, "Graded back in the days when a coin had to not have any wear on it to be called Mint State. That is no longer the case on early U.S. coins."
I don't disagree with what you said about coins "Graded back in the days when a coin had to not have any wear on it to be called Mint State" but for the record the Gorman 1836 JR-3 Dime pictured above was graded by PCGS in late 2015.
The Kirk Gorman Capped Bust Dime Reference Collection consigned to me was 129 Capped Bust Dimes in total, with 92 of the Dimes "raw" (!) when the collection was turned over to me to be sold. I sent all 129 Dimes to PCGS myself and had all of them photographed outside of the holders.
Needless to say, Kirk Gorman had a great eye.
W. David Perkins Numismatics - http://www.davidperkinsrarecoins.com/ - 25+ Years ANA, ANS, NLG, NBS, LM JRCS, LSCC, EAC, TAMS, LM CWTS, CSNS, FUN
Bad phrasing on my part. I meant if the coin were in an acceptable holder N/P as an Unc. cac probably wouldn't sticker.
I bet the person who bought this was a dealer, and I bet they make money on it.
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Very attractive coin, no doubt about it.
I would have to call it AU and slight rub appears evident in the photos. Only sight seen examination can settle one way or another though. Perhaps two people got in a heated bid war willing to spend so much price guides not a factor.
This coin is going to end up in a 63 or better holder I guarantee
The Gorman coin, while quite attractive and desireable, is, in my opinion based solely upon the pictures in this thread, not as high a grade as the OP coins. The wear on it is much more obvious than that on the OP coin. Back in 1979-84 when I was grading at ANACS, we would have called it an AU-50 based upon the wear. With today's gradeflation I am not surprised that it is called an AU-58 based upon the eye appeal.
The ANACS coin doesn't have the obvious rub of the other 2. Compare hair over ear, wing tips arches, eagle's brow and claw knuckles, Liberty's nostril, etc.
CAC is performing a disservice by not CAC'ing the older, smaller ANACS slabs.
What is the given reason for that?
I heard that they have enough business beaning NGC and PCGS coins that there was no need to expand to ANACS material.
Not even Anacs has a grade guarantee on the old white slabs, but if asked to crossover will put them in their blue slabs, to get crossed over into their gold slabs they have to be re-graded. So cac wouldn't want to be approving white slabs.
interesting clash both obv/rev on the OP coin.
3 years later....
https://coins.ha.com/itm/bust-dimes/1836-10c-jr-3-r3-ms64and-9733-ngc/a/1314-3326.s
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Nice catch!
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
No CAC?
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Nice upgrade, but looks like a small loss after fees.
Excellent. Someone here will probably live to see it in a 65 holder one day.
Wow, apparently the buyer got an upgrade from 58 to 64 and basically broke even on the deal.... after three years.
Breaking even would be a win for a collector.
Doesn't look like the same coin to me.
For sure it is. A few things to line it up: the light toning patch surrounded by blue in front of the upper nose, the mark in the fields to the left of the mid-bust, the small mark coming near tangent to the far right lock of hair nearest the star, and the mark coming out of the cap diagonally down next to the second to top start on the right.
I can't believe it got a 64
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