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The Harlem Globetrotter effect on professional sports.
Coinstartled
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in Sports Talk
Abe Saperstein had it right. To counter the acrobatics (not to mention expert ability) of the Globetrotters, he created the hapless Washington Generals which miraculously never enjoyed a winning game even after multiple decades.
An exhibition of course and Saperstein knew that the paying crowd wanted to see a win by the Globetrotters....and that he provided.
We talk today about home field advantage. The familiarity of your own field or court. The home cooking and the cheering fans. Can one though underestimate the leagues acknowledgement that folks attend a game to see their team win, and through benevolent conspiracy with the officiating crews, see that that occurs with a frequency that exceeds what logic would expect?
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So you are insinuating that the league is in collusion with the teams and officials to rig games? Unlikely. Way too much money at stake to play that game. If the fans think the games are being bought and sold, they stop watching, then the money stops. Very unlikely.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
60% of regular season NBA games are won by the homers. Courts are uniform throughout the league (at least since 1999 when Boston dismantled the old parquet floor.) Does hometown enthusiasm alone explain the lopsided numbers?
could be the crowds, travel, playing a game the day after a red eye, not sleeping in your own bed, losing the last game of a road trip because of lack of focus. Could be any number of things. I think if you are going to make allegations of leagues and teams fixing games you probably should come with some hard evidence, considering that is the worst transgression one can make in sports.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
officials were already caught cheating in basketball. Why can't they still be cheating? I don't think they rig games for teams but they definitely call fouls different for superstars than they do for scrubs
I suspect it is a bit softer than that. Not so much rigging a game as much as throwing a few penalty calls in the home team's direction, enough to keep the good guys aloft in a tight game and add a few more home wins to the standings.
Doubtful that suffering through the night on a custom 8 foot long bed in a four star hotel would rattle a professional NBA'er all that much.
Bronco, if I remember correctly, that nba ref that threw games did so of his own accord, not on orders from the league office. I think the op is insinuating league ordered cheating. There can always be a lone wolf, but I really don't believe in a league wide conspiracy.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Are you still alleging league directed cheating? It seems you are backpedaling from your original post. Games are either rigged or they aren't. Not much wiggle room there.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I dunno....was allowing Michael Jordan to take 3 extra steps while setting up a dunk considered rigging? He was the game in the last fifteen years of the last century and the league clearly was not going to compromise the show by calling traveling.
I watched a LOT of bb in the 80's-90's. I remember an extra step or two but not necessarily 3. Maybe sometimes? Could that not be human error and not grand conspiracy? I liken it to the strike zone. It is called a certain way during different eras.
Don't you think if one of the major sports in the last twenty or thirty years put forth a game fixing conspiracy, that someone would have come out with it or written a tell all book? Conspiracy seems very unlikely.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Let's flip it around.
8 influential players per team. 250 total in the league. The elite. The best of the best. The pro's with ice running through their veins. We are to accept that they get a bit too tired traveling, get IBS from the $200 dinners, become rattled by hostile crowds. So much so that they play .600 basketball at home and .400 on the road.
Seems worthy of speculation.
I don't care how luxurious the accommodations, it still isn't home and you are still on the road. I have been on the road before, in some pretty nice places, and I am still anxious to get home. And I am not trying to face 95 mph fastballs or dodge linemen. Think occams razor. An over reaching, all encompassing league wide conspiracy to ensure the home team wins more, or something else. the burden of proof belongs to you. You brought up the allegation. So far just insinuation and feelings
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Well, the Sheik did really throw fire into the eyes of Lord Layton.
Well, I guess that settles this discussion. No proof from you.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
60% home win rate across the league is ample evidence that the refs are in the bag for the homers. Maybe 65-35% will get your attention or perhaps 70-30% will do it.
Professional sports, littered with the likes of Pete Rose, Alex Rodriquez, Barry Bonds, Lance Armstrong, Tom Brady, Mark McGwire etc, are protected as sacred and hallowed for their integrity and pureness.
We have to I suppose, as it is all that we have left.
Interesting debate!
Now you are bringing up individual players in an attempt to further your op about leagues tampering with games. And then only one of the guys you mentioned has gambled on games. Are we now debating gambling, steroids, equipment tampering or league's fixing games? You are a moving target.
Is there not a home field/court advantage in every sport and at every level? Even down to the high school level? Should a team not be expected to win more home games? Or are you saying the conspiracy is even bigger? Is every sport at every level involved because the home team wins more games?
You are being silly here, right?
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Of the 4 major US team sports, NBA has the most scoring events per game. Perhaps 7 or 8 in the NHL, half a dozen or so in MLB and about 8 per game in the NFL. NBA is in the 100 events per game range.
The frequency of scoring as well as the fact that only a handful of players per team need to touch the ball (as opposed to MLB where you have to wait your turn to bat), would indicate that basketball would provide the most consistent results. Yet, across an 82 game regular season, a given team will win at home 50% more often than on the road.
No, I am not being silly.
In your op, you mentioned fields/courts. Then later on you referenced baseball, football, cyclists and professional wrestlers. I assumed we were talking american sports in general here.
High school, college, d league and nba level teams all win more games at home. Is it your assertion that the home team conspiracy encompasses ALL levels of american basketball? Or could it just be that players feel more comfortable at home for whatever reason, and win more games there.
I really think you are playing a joke on me here.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I disagree with the initial assertion, and I'm one who follows the NBA religiously. Prior to tonight's games, 9 out of 30 teams have losing records at home. 10 have winning records on the road. That's a normal statistical dispersion, in my opinion.
If you don't think playing at home offers up a discernible advantage, I don't know what to tell you. There are myriad reasons why it does. Next time two evenly-matched teams are pitted against one another, go find the betting line and see which team it favors. That said, does familiarity guarantee victory? Of course not. But given a large sample size, are you better served playing within the confines of your own court? In front of fans who incessantly and boisterously root for you as opposed to against you for four quarters? Of course you are, and that's why teams predominantly have better looking records in the H portion of the H & A split.
Teams from each conference jockey for the best possible position in the standings for that very reason -- home court. If #1-8 didn't matter, the regular season would be absolutely pointless. They could just play out 82 games and playoff participants could then flip for home and away.
To your point about things being unnaturally tilted in favor of the home squad, whose fans did the Game 7 victor in last year's Finals celebrate in front of?
If you really want to break down the most self-evident problem in the NBA, it's the lack of parity. Unlike baseball and football, less than a handful of teams can realistically win a championship before the season even commences. And the disparity has not one thing to do with nefarious activity.
"""If you don't think playing at home offers up a discernible advantage, I don't know what to tell you. There are myriad reasons why it does. Next time two evenly-matched teams are pitted against one another, go find the betting line and see which team it favors."""
I believe that you just supported my point.
Your point, not mine. You think Vegas swings the number because the suits influence the outcome. You're entitled to that cynical opinion all you want, but again I ask, where was the home-court conspiracy when the biggest game of the entire season came a callin' last year? Or Game 5? Or Game 4?
You're grasping, my friend...
I would support the notion that the losing team on the road simply sucks worse than the winning team at home. The NBA desperately needs a makeover anyways, but that ain't gonna happen. See you guys at the Cavs-Dubs Finals again. And again.
Vegas adjusts the spread to balance the books. That is the only reason the spread swings away from the opening line.
Those placing wagers have an expectation that the home team is at an advantage, at least compared to an equivalent game on the road.
I thought he was kidding
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
"""If you really want to break down the most self-evident problem in the NBA, it's the lack of parity. Unlike baseball and football, less than a handful of teams can realistically win a championship before the season even commences. And the disparity has not one thing to do with nefarious activity."""
In a league of big 3, little 27 (I believe that San Antonio deserves more credit), it is imperative to give the fans of the lost 90% of the teams reason to buy season tickets and pay 8 or 9 bucks for beer and hot dogs.
As far as Cleveland winning game 7 on the road. Neither GS or the Cavs need help in the fan base department.
I think you are right, he must be kidding.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Thread is gassed out. Time to move on to the non professional purity of the NCAA game.
And their home court advantage that has absolutely nothing to do with any league or school interference....
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
More at issue is the PED abuse and golden handshakes!
And here I was just thinking the same ol' teams seeded first in the march to madness, same ol' recruiting violations, same ol' one and done freshmen, same ol' cheerleaders......no, wait. Scratch that itch.
Seems that Mark Cuban has confirmed the part about rigging games, at least to gain benefit in the draft. Flip side of course of a Mavericks rigged game, is that the opponent, often a playoff contender, is unwittingly involved in a rigged event as well.
The world is an impure place , most of the impurity seems to have money at the root of it. Have reasonable expectations going in and you won't be as upset about it.
What does Mark Cuban have to do with it? He has always seemed like a douche to me , recent events confirm that to some extent , are we surprised ?
Oh no not Mark Cuban you say .... as if he was one of the good ones and you are crushed
Wouldn't that be funny if two teams wanting a better draft pick played, and the game ended as a 0 - 0 tie?
Then one team's player in OT tried to miss a foul shot, and it took a weird bounce and went in.
I wonder how much Adam Silver would fine Mark Cuban this time? LOL
I believe tanking in the NBA used to be more prevalent. Teams didn't have to deliberately miss shots or have turnovers, they could "rest" their better players more, double team mediocre players while their stars get open, attack the other team at it's strongest defensive presence. That is why the League went to the present lottery draft, not simply giving the top pick to the worst team.
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Ralph
Sports are on a continuum of how much effort constitutes game rigging. In baseball for example pitchers are rotated to save their arms and future careers. No problem there. Indy some years ago passed on the shot at a 16-0 season to rest the starters before the playoffs. Understandable I suppose.
Tanking the team for half a season to try to win a title, two or three years down the line? Sorry...I know that Cuban wasn't the first, but that kills the integrity of the game. Probably better to just forfeit the last 40 games.