Will Bonds and Clemens rookies ever return to their historic price levels when they get elected?
lightningboy
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Based on the results of the past couple of years it appears as though it is a matter of when, and not if, that Bonds and Clemens get into the Hall. I think we would all agree that both of these players were on the fast track to 1st ballot induction long before they began to beef up. My question is this- Do you think their cards will realize the same type of percentage upswing in market value as someone like Blyleven after he was finally elected?
Obviously their numbers are considerably better than Blyleven's, but just like him, they had been, until recently, considered by many to be long shots to ever get elected.
FYI - I dumped my stash of Clemens and Bonds years ago as values plummeted. So, I am not trying to capitalize on insider trading 
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I remember THIS card selling for $150.00 when he was on his tear. NO WAY it ever hits $150.00 again.
Doug
Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
Dumped most Clemens long ago, except for 84 Fleer Updates & auto'd stuff. Kept most, if not all of my Bonds stuff, except for the giant piles of 87 Topps RC's returned to the gutters from whence they came. He is still the all-time Home Run Leader (not King) and that must be worth something. As time progresses, perhaps some folks will appreciate BB a little more and so will his cards.
I think over time, PEDs will become less of an issue. Not so much for people who, like me, lived through it and can't stand it, but I think the younger generations of fans will not have such a hard time with it.
There was a lot of pushback in the 1920's and 1930's from dead ball players who didn't appreciate the big offense type of play. But generations later few fans see an issue.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
They may see an upswing, especially in the low pop or PSA 10 stuff, but not for common cards of the 80's and 90's in PSA 9's.
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If Bonds and Clemens get in, then certainly Mark McGwire gets in, so perhaps his cards should be included as part of this topic...?
TheClockworkAngelCollection
Craig, you are dead on about the younger generation. I have 22 & 24 year old boys who could care less about the PED issue that used to exist within MLB.
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I think the problem is still supply. Other than the 1986 Tiffany Topps Traded for Bonds (and there are still over 2000 graded by PSA), the others just have way too many cards. The 1984 Fleer Update Clemens has around 4500 graded by PSA. Of course, you can say 1986 Fleer Jordan has over 16,000 graded by PSA. There are 268 10's for Jordan, 362 10's for Bonds, and 386 10's for Clemens, so you can always go that route. And I think there will always still be that * by Bonds and Clemens' names. It's still hard to put them in the conversation for greatest batter or pitcher ever.
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Are you saying because of PED's it's still hard to put them in the conversation? IMHO they both deserve to be in that convo.
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Some day, yes... but it's going to be awhile. They'll probably experience a spike when they do finally get into the HOF... but then were talking a good 10-15 years or so from now when they'll appreciate again. You know, like many of us, 15 years from now when kids who loved watching those guys play (later in their careers) are 30 and 40 somethings with cash to spend on childhood idols. That 10 year old kid who watched Bonds smack 73 in 2001... he'll be 40 in 2031. It's gonna be awhile!
Look at the market today! Vintage is strong, because, well, vintage is strong! New stuff that comes out is always hot, then most of it fizzles. 80's stuff, let's be honest, it's junk, but a lot of it has been hot for some time. Not because it's scarce, or valuable, or great. It's been hot because us 30 and 40 somethings who started collecting in the 80's have cash to spend on it NOW!
I read a great article the other day on SI about how Albert Pujols is the Hank Aaron of this baseball generation... and almost nobody cares and/or is paying attention. He's on the cusp of 600 HR and 3000 Hits (not to mention 2000 RBI)... and people think he's washed up and not worth his contract. He's not Mike Trout, Bryce Harper, Kris Bryant, Mookie Betts... or Dansby Swanson, Andrew Benintendi, Yoan Moncada... he's old news, and old news doesn't sell. Fans appreciate really old news, but fans crave what is hot right now. More emphasis on what have you done for me lately, and almost no regard for, "wow, look at all that you have done." Maybe Jeter is an exception (New York), but think about Chipper Jones, David Ortiz, etc... celebrated and heralded in their final seasons... but the years leading up to that farewell season, kinda of there, but not as relevant as all the other young hype-machines.
Sadly, cards are no different. They'll get there appreciation again... but not until they're really old news
haha I've bought a handful of these cards over the last month for less than the PSA grading fee. I like the card so thought I'd pick some up. I'm not going to make much on it but it's nice to have!
My fav bonds card is the psa slabbed auto that has thr inscription from him, "say no to drugs." Priceless
Most of their cards were massively overproduced, but the 1985 Fleer Sticker Roger Clemens is an underrated card based on production levels. There isn't a whole lot of that stuff out there in wax form.
Many of the above say they "dumped" bonds and Clemens. Supply vs. demand and surely prices will drop like a rock. With all the suspicion there is no reason for the cards to rise again....unless the HOF bell starts ringing.
Then for sure the scarcer cards will go up. Maybe not ever to previous levels. I think the Clemens 84 FU can reach $1500 levels again.
You can't compare Jeter or Jordan to anyone else !!!!!!!
I disagree on McGwire. He may be a HR guru but doesn't have anywhere the individual awards that Bonds and Clemens have. Nobody and nobody doesn't thing the two were hofers even without turning (if they did?) tp PEDs.
I have several 86 TT Bonds that I remember paying $250 each for. Live and learn.
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> FYI - I dumped my stash of Clemens and Bonds years ago as values plummeted. So, I am not trying to capitalize on insider trading
Wish I did too, but I was too much of collector to let go. Especially the '91 Desert Shield Clemens variant. Overpaid immensely for these due to a sentimental attachment to this set. Oh well, I suppose. I lost a helluvalot more when nearly my entire vintage hockey collection got stolen about 20 years ago.
I can see the 1987 Fleer Glossy Bonds PSA 10 getting to $400-$500 as he gets closer to 75%. The 1986 Tiffany is between $1300-$1500. The Glossy pop is 460 vs 362 for 1986 Tiffany Bonds PSA 10. On a % basis, a 1987 Fleer Glossy PSA 10 much harder to get than a Tiffany.
Not only were these cards mass produced, but various rookies of the same players massively produced lol.
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
The 1985 Clemens fleer/topps/donruss will top out around $30-40. The 1986 Bonds cards + 1987 fleer will hit $25-30.
The only ones that will see a solid increase will be the tiffany clemens and bonds as well as the 1984 clemens update.
I can't see the 1985 Fleer going back to where it was in 2006-07 time frame. It would be nice.
The Topps Tiffany is a different story. The McGwire exploded and I see sales at $2,325 so the card is being taken seriously. Not sure this 9 will go back to $280 in a BGS holder but it has surpassed it in a PSA one. The joke was on me as I bought a BGS copy back then at a much higher price than the PSA graded examples were going for. Did the same thing on Griffey Jr. 1989 Upper Deck. Self subbed this Tiffany from the factory set I busted in 2004 once I got started in my career. I think the 1985 set is iconic and the Gooden is so low Pop in a 10 it supports higher prices on some of the marquee cards. I could see the Tiffany going for much higher in 9's and 10's if the stance softens towards PED users.
Dpeck, on the self sub Tiffany Clemens in the 7 grade have you attempted a bump?
To all, on the unopened, factory sealed Tiffany sets when you open them what type of grades do you generally get?
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I have not. I just sent it in to have one in a PSA holder. I got a PSA 9 on both of the McGwire and the Puckett. Sold those five years ago with some other cards to buy my wife a Chanel purse. I just looked last night at the prices and whomever bought them from me did good.
So did your wife.
The Bonds 87 fleer hottest stars has a pop 93 in PSA 10. And the PSA 9 pop is pretty low compared to his other rookies.
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
Speaking of Low POP Bonds/Clemens RCs, their Leaf issues are among the scarcest in PSA 10. The 1987 Leaf Bonds PSA 10 is a POP 74 out of 1282 total graded (5.7%) and the 1985 Leaf Clemens PSA 10 is a POP 44 out of 1254 (3.5%).