How reliable are the R ratings like R5 and R6

johnharlin

I have a couple of coins I purchased that are rated as R5 and R6. I have researched what that means and it means approximately that for R5 only 66 to 133 coins were ever made and for R6 it means that only 33 to 66 coins were ever made.
Where do these ratings come from?
How reliable are they?
Does that mean that these are the only coins that they know of that have been on the market or do they actually mean that is the total amount of coins ever made. If the latter is so, I think it is totally unreliable and I would need to email or speak with the people who come up with these ratings.

EXOJUNKIE

@johnharlin,

It means an estimate of how many examples of a particular coin are still extant -- not how many were made/minted.

IMO, a rarity scale's reliability is proportional to how long ago the rating was declared. For example, if you are looking at a reference from 1960, there is a high probability that more examples have been discovered since then, which would change the rarity rating of a particular coin. Conversely, if your reference was just updated a couple of years ago, then it is probably accurate. Make sense?

WDP

@johnharlin posted, "I have a couple of coins I purchased that are rated as R5 and R6. I have researched what that means and it means approximately that for R5 only 66 to 133 coins were ever made and for R6 it means that only 33 to 66 coins were ever made. _
_Where do these ratings come from?
How reliable are they?

This is not an easy subject to provide a short reply to as there have been a number of different rarity rating scales devised and used over the years. I am personally not familiar with the one above with R5 = 66 to 133 coins made and R6 equals 33 to 66 coins ever made.

I suggest you read an article on PCGS Coin Facts titled, "Value and Rarity Ratings" by Q. David Bowers. The section on rarity ratings and the different scales used over the years can be found at this link - you can page forward or backward to view and read the entire article:

https://www.pcgs.com/books/silver-dollars/Chapter02-005.aspx

WDP

@johnharlin posted, "Does that mean that these are the only coins that they know of that have been on the market or do they actually mean that is the total amount of coins ever made. If the latter is so, I think it is totally unreliable and I would need to email or speak with the people who come up with these ratings."

In general most if not almost all rarity rating scales are estimating how many coins exist today for each rarity rating number.

I say not all (are based on number surviving) as I Know of at least one rarity rating scale used that based some of the medals on their scale on the number made vs. number surviving). But in general my experience is that most rarity rating scales are based on number of examples surviving.

Let's say a coin is called R-7 on a rarity rating scale, and that R-7 means 4-12 examples known. And further, let's say there are four examples known to the author or cataloger. One proper way to catalog an example of this coin would be "R-7, with four examples known to me." Another proper way would be "Milferd H. Bolender called this 1795 silver dollar an R-7 in his book, _The United States Early Silver Dollars From 1794 to 1803 (First Edition 1950)."

I have studied and revised the rarity ratings by die marriage for the early U.S. silver dollars 1794-1803 over the years. I used this information personally. I have published this information, received feedback from knowledgeable collectors and dealers, and have revised these ratings over the years. Following is a snapshot of how my spreadsheet looks. As you will see, the rarity ratings have been published by different sources, and as new information is known the ratings have been revised.

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The photo is a snapshot taken of my laptop computer screen. "Orig Bolender Rating" is from Bolender's book (1st Edition 1950). "My Ratings WDP" are my ratings as of 2014. You will note the different rarity ratings from different sources over the years, and also note that ratings have gone both up and down at times.

This spreadsheet has helped me understand the relative rarity of the different early dollar die marriages over the years. If you asked me the current rarity rating for the 1795 BB-22, B-10 Dollar, I would reply, "R-6 today, with 13-14 examples known to me." [Note this die marriage was R-7 (4-12 examples known) in 2014. I know of three new examples have shown up in the last three years, and have revised this rating down to R-6 (13-30) examples known.] It is also proper to say this die marriage is "High R-6, with 13-14 examples known to me." High R-6 indicates that this die marriage is closer to R-7 than it is to R-5.

You never stated what the two coins were that you purchased, one as an R-5 and one as an R-6.

wizzy1

WDP, thanks for that. How do you collect the data for the die marriages? That's an aspect of our hobby I hadn't considered.
Also why doesn't everyone use the Sheldon scale? Our host uses a different scale and it is and was a big source of confusion for me.

WDP

@wizzy1 , I just saw your questions (above) today, "How do you collect the data for the die marriages? That's an aspect of our hobby I hadn't considered.

Also why doesn't everyone use the Sheldon scale? Our host uses a different scale and it is and was a big source of confusion for me."

For the early U.S. Silver Dollars 1794 to 1803, I have gathered data from auction sales, from collectors and dealers that let me know when a new example shows appears, fixed price list offerings, and articles and reference books. The trick is in figuring out if it is truly a new example, or is is a reappearance of a known specimen. I've been doing this for over 25 years now. I think I have the relative rarity ratings down pretty well for the early dollars these days, with input and confirmation over the years from a number of fellow early dollar collectors and experts.

If you take a look at the following document (copied from above) and study the headings, it shows you some of the sources I used as baselines for my own rarity ratings. I tracked appearances for a period of five to six years to develop the "relative rarity" of each early dollar die marriage. This gave me a good feel for the relative rarity of each die marriage. This could be and was adjusted over time as new information was learned.

I built a library of auction catalogs, and used the extensive ANA Library in Colorado Springs. For the early dollars, I "plate matched" as many of the known examples (as I could) of the R-4 to R-8 die marriages (on the Sheldon Rarity Rating Scale). I eliminated multiple appearances of the same coins. I tracked down former collectors and family members and was able to get a lot of great information this way, including old correspondence between collectors and experts in the early dollars. Some had annotated reference books which I acquired or copied.
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There are different rarity rating scales for different series. And probably should be. For example, most Morgan Dollars would rate R-1 on the Sheldon Rarity Rating Scale, with more than 1,250 examples known. Calling a Morgan Dollar "R-1" would not be very meaningful.

The key is for the author, cataloger, or person selling a coin to let you know what RR Scale is being used (if you ask). Or list the number of a range of examples known to them or some other (identified) source. I try to use something like this, "1795 B-8, BB-15 Silver Dollar, R-7 with 7 examples known to me."

This is not an easy subject to write a short reply on..... Hope this helps a little.